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Post by 2CHuangyibin11 on Apr 12, 2008 6:18:37 GMT -5
Hey everyone. Yibin here. I’m abiit lag on the forum lar. So late then start posting. So the way I answer may be like. Quite similar to the way you guys already did. Don’t mind please><…anyway I’m attempting questions 2-4.
2) Why do you think Jack didn't kill the pig?
In my opinion I think that Jack was innocent. Pure and unpolluted. A decent 12-year-old like any other primary 6 kid we see. Usually, they do not harbour any evil intention whatsoever. Though the course of events in the book causes Jack and his fellow choir “hunters” to turn wild and a thirst for killing, the starting saw them as quite serious and stern, but still acceptable fellows.
Killing a big animal is different from killing an insect like an ant—just step on it. When you kill a pig, the sight of blood of huge volumes of blood spurting out is actually not a common sight to them and this put is another point that turns Jack off. No one likes to see blood spurting out of their own body I’m sure*ahem exclude emo people please*.
3) What is the significance of the conch?
The conch is power. The power to speak. The very thing that gathered all the children together. Power revolved around the conch (well at least in the first part of the book). This was one of the reasons why the children elected Ralph as their chief. The conch gave the bearer a sort of power that distinguished him from the rest.
This was why the conch was, as suggested by Ralph, an object to show that the person possesses the power to speak. However, it is also still dependent of the person holding the conch. If he is someone that was usually teased or bullied, the audience will still not give the bearer due respect, as in the cases of Piggy and the boy with a birthmark. The conch was somewhat ineffective as it did not have the exact effect that Ralph wanted. The children did not obey the rules and talked even when the bearer was still talking. Worst thing is when the bearer has not even come to a conclusion as of what to do and has just started an idea when every starts screaming and shouting and carries out the “default” action in their brains. Example is when Ralph gave them the suggestion of starting a fire on a mountain.
Thus, we can safely say that the conch was important in maintaining peace. However in this story, it was not completely effective in getting everyone to follow the rule of the conch.
4) What is the significance of Piggy's spectacles? The spectacles have significance in usage, and on Piggy too. The spectacles came in handy when starting a fire as it could concentrate the light and heat on one point to start a fire. However, there is a deeper reasoning to the spectacles from my opinion. This story was written in past so I assume that it was set in the same period of time. At that time in history, spectacles were still not popular yet, unlike the teenagers and children nowadays which had spectacles.
Having specs in the past were regarded as being geeky and nerdy, especially in those olden day with black boxy frames. This was to give Piggy the impression of a studious and smart guy who knows a lot. This is confirmed when the good suggestions all come from Piggy. However, you cannot have the best of both worlds (no matter what Hannah Montana sings). The nerds were mostly, at that time, being bullied by everyone because of their appearance and, in Piggy’s case, size. Piggy was fat (hence his name) and fat people were also discriminated last time, making the situation worse for Piggy. Piggy was also always written as wiping his glasses when he was nervous or in similar situations. From this we can see that the spectacles was mostly used to give the impression of Piggy as a smart but often bullied boy. It was one of the writer’s way of describing a person.
That’s about it yea. Ok byee. Comment if you want to =) though I know it’s a bit long.
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Post by 2cmarcusyeo33 on Apr 13, 2008 1:09:12 GMT -5
Question 3: What is the significance of the conch?
The conch, in my opinion, is very related to the idea of social order. Ralph first thinks the conch as a "interesting and pretty and worthy plaything." But Piggy realises the importance of the conch and its practicality to call the other survivors. The conch becomes a symbol of the presense of humans. Immediately after the conch is blown, "Clouds of birds rose from the tree-tops, and something squealed and ran in the undergrowth." The call of the conch penetrates the forest and nature, leaving the 2nd mark of humans, on something that was at first untouched. This is very significant in the story. Becomes this is a hint, that the "beast" was not a monster or a creature, but its was the innate evil inside each and every one of the boys. And that is was not the island that was evil but the boys themselves. Hence, the representation of the conch as a symbol of humans, is significant because of how it shows that evil resides in every on of the boys.
Apart from being a symbol of humans, it is also a symbol of law and order. The conch is used in meetings to ensure the freedom of speech is carried out in an organised manner, where a "hands-up in school" system is used.
The conch is a powerful symbol, which the boys respected and it ensured law and order, no matter whether it was very little at times, was carried out. This is significant because when the conch is broken in the story, the shattering of the conch reperesents the demise of rational influence and civilised instinct. And that episode of shattering, foreshadows the consequent disorder. The significance of the death of Piggy with shattering shows the symbiotic relationship between the conch and Piggy, where Piggy, because he lives according to a lawful and orderly society and environment, the conch protects him like how social order protects him until it is diminished. Hence, the conch which represents law and order, is significant in the later episodes of the demise of social convention and the degration of humans to savages.
Marcus yeo 2c
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Post by 2chanhao09 on Apr 13, 2008 1:20:05 GMT -5
3) I feel that the couch represents order. In the story, there is a rule set up that says that whoever holds the couch would have the right to talk during a assembly. It shows that the couch have a great " power" that enables one to talk when he or she had the couch. Piggy keep saying that he had the couch, making him have the right to talk and point out his view. His continuous speech of him having the couch suggests that the writer wanted to point out the view that the couch symbolise rules. Piggy was always interupted by Jack, but he always continued because he thought he was right to talk due to the couch.
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Post by 2cderborne17 on Apr 14, 2008 9:35:59 GMT -5
Hi again, today I shall be answering question 4 4) What is the significance of Piggy's spectacles?
Piggy's Spectacles are similar to that of his personality. He is as fragile and brittle as his spectacles, but is very helpful. Piggy is the boy with the highest intellectual quotient and he has a vast knowledge. This advantage he possessed help the rest of the stranded boys a lot. Piggy was the one who found the conch, which brought about law and order on the island. Furthermore, the conch enabled the boys to find each other when Ralph blew it. Moreover, Piggy was also the one who taught Ralph how to blow the conch. Piggy's spectacles was equally helpful too. His spectacles allowed him to see, of course. And it also helped to create fire. A fire is the most important thing on the island. Not only did it provide warmth and comfort to the boys during the cold and heartless nights, it is also indirectly, the key to a rescue. Where there is fire, there is smoke. Hence, the smoke will attract the attention of ships or boats passing by. However, Piggy's spectacles is equally fragile as Piggy as Piggy is on the verge of bursting into fits of fury when all the boys on the island were prejudicial against him. Therefore, it is can be inferred that Piggy is equally fragile as his spectacles. Additionally, Piggy cries easily, portraying his extremely brittle emotions. When Piggy's spectacles broke when Jack pushed him, Piggy burst into rivers of tears. Although his spectacles is very crucial to his vision as he started wearing spectacles when he was three years old, it was only one lens that shattered, while the other lens was perfectly fine. Hence, Piggy's emotions can be inferred that it is equally fragile as his spectacles. Therefore, Piggy's spectacles signifies some of Piggy's personality and it was a great help to all the other boys in the story. Hence, it can be significant to a key, that unlocks many doors. The door to a rescue, to comfort and to many other things the boys on the island will need. Thank You for your attention, I will be more than delighted to hear your opinions and comments. ;D
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Post by 2CHuangyibin11 on Apr 15, 2008 3:21:53 GMT -5
Hey I finally got my first question done. Following up to my others.
1) What is social order? How did it come about on the island? Social Order refers to, as defined by Wiki (familiar eh James), “a set of linked social structures, social institutions and social practices which conserve, maintain and enforce "normal" ways of relating and behaving.”
Ralph realised the need for social order as during the assembly meetings and daily activities as he noticed that the children had very messed up, unorderly way of living. People were interrupting each other like some noisy market and even in the division of where to bathe, do your business etc. they did not have any reasoning or whatsoever to what they did. Ralph wanted to have a sense of society on the island. The point was to ensure that people do not get very agitated easily and result in fights and quarrels.
Ralph then thought up of instilling rules on the island. He was greeted by a roaring approval from his crowd of audience. However, actions speak louder than words. The children often did not follow the rules and “laws” as stated by Ralph. Things like keeping a fire going was always quarrelled out even though one party (in this case Jack’s choir) has already agreed to keep the fire going. Even Ralph quarrelled with Jack unnecessarily in the assemblies. Here we can see that though setting out rules for social order is easy, enforcing it is much harder. So technically speaking, the “social order” was barely there.
yibin
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Post by 2adingquan19 on Apr 15, 2008 7:42:07 GMT -5
Hi to all! For me, I'm just going to voice out my opinions and answers for all the questions:
1) To me, social order is the used of ideas in our everyday life to maintain relations and behaviour with one another. In this case, the boys were from Britain which is a developed country during that period. Hence, there are rules and rules in their everyday life when they were back in their homeland. As such, the boys come out with rules and rules to maintain the law and order on the island. If they are from countries which were not developed yet, they would not be able to think of such a good idea in setting up rules for others.
2) Jack, in the first place, is actually a civilised and innocent boy who suggested having lots and lots of rules. It is obvious that due to this fact, Jack would not have the heart to kill a pig which, to me, is like a murder.
3) As most of you should already know, the conch signifies the authority a person have. As there were no adults on the islands to help them, the conch is one particular object that, if possessed, to belooked at like an adult speaking sense to the crowd. In other words, it could be used to maintain law and order within the boys.
4) Piggy's specs could signifies both wisdom and means of survival on the island. most of the students believed that the more you read books (study), the more you used your eyes and hence, the thicker your lens shall be. Piggy's specs could mean the wisdom and intellidence the boys had in the first place. Furthermore, Piggy specs were used to light a fire so as to let off a signal to any passing ships and later, used to cook meat hunted by the hunters. In short, Piggy's specs could also be the means to survive on the deserted island.
That is all I have to say. Hope that this satisfies your requirements!
Ding Quan (2A19)
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Post by 2bjosephlim10 on Apr 15, 2008 9:22:50 GMT -5
Hello all, I shall be posting my views on Q 2, 3 and 4. Q1 is a bit hard, so im not gonna answer it now.
2) Why do you think Jack didn't kill the pig?
First of all, I feel that in the beginning of the story, Jack is still the normal civilised boy that can be found anywhere in civilised cities. He is still the good natured, innocent boy who has done no crime, seen no bloodshed . Naturally, when faced with the challenge of killing the pig, even though it is an animal, Jack still hesitated whether to kill the pig, resulting in the escape of the pig. The main reason is that since Jack is still the good natured 12 year old, he was so called "bound by moral code" to not harm anything and that he was also afraid of the bloodshed as this was probably his first time killing anything. Thus, Jack didnt kill the pig.
3) What is the significance of the conch?
The conch, in my opinion is a symbol of law and authority, that whoever possesses the conch has that authority to command other people. When Ralph first found the conch and blew it, everybody came, soon, it was because Ralph had the conch that he became leader. This can be seen from pg 30 of the book where the other children said "Him with the shell" and "Let him be chief with the trumpet-thing". Obviously the other children voted Ralph as chief because he had the conch. Thus, this links it back to the part that the conch signifies authority. Even in the subsequent chapters of the book, whenever there was a meeting, the conch would be blown to call everyone to the platform. Another example would be the fact that during the meeting, only those with the conch can talk, showing that the conch gives whoever that holds it the authority.
4) What is the significance of Piggy's spectacles?
Piggy's spectacles signify the "key to being rescued from the island" It is the only thing on the island that can light a fire. A fire is needed to have smoke, smoke is needed to be rescued. Thus, Piggy's spectacles becomes a very important item and is essential in order for the group to be rescued from th island.
Regards Joseph
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Post by 2aedmondchen04 on Apr 15, 2008 9:54:25 GMT -5
Hi. Here are my answers for all the questions:
Question 1: To me, the term social order means having discipline and cohesion within the society or community, through mutual respect and accomodation. In this case, social order is brought about by the group of boys on the island. It started off almost perfect(except for piggy's case). There were no arguments whatsoever during the first assembly and almost everyone agreed on the same thing. There were few objections. However, things turned for the worse. When the evil in them was revealed, the social order declined. They could not hold a proper assembly. They even wanted to kill each other. Thus, social order is the mutual understanding and respect in which turned from good to bad in LOTF.
Question 2: I think Jack didnt kill the pig because he still had the heart of a child in him. He was only a 12 year old who could even sing C sharp. Furthermore, he was a leader in his school. This means he had to be very well-natured to be considered as a role model for the rest of the students. Thus, his well-cultured and civilised way of handling things stopped him from killing the pig. He could not possibly bear the tear of flesh and the sight of blood.
Question 3: The conch to me represents Power. Firstly, the conch managed to gather everyone from different parts of the island after the plane crashed. Next, during assembly, only the person holding the conch could talk. This signified the authority of the conch. However, after the evil in the boys were exposed, the conch soon cracked and so did its power. Its power 'tore loose' just like the boys. The boys became savages and hunted each other down. Thus, the conch not only represented law and authority, it also represented the loose of power within the boys after it broke.
Question 4: Piggy's specs also represented power. However, it had more to do with the degree of savagery in the boys. Power, was represented by how piggy's specs could be used to make a fire, for rescue and for cooking. Anyone who has it virtually had the power to determine the fate of the group, whether they would eventually get rescued and whether they would have a fire for food and warmth. However, what piggy's specs really signify is the degree of savagery in the group of boys. When piggy first arrived, the specs was crystal clear with no scratches whatsoever. But later on, when the boys' evil side was revealed, piggy's specs slowly got damaged. The first sign of savagery was when piggy's specs was first damaged. It left a lens missing. Later, the specs were even stolen by Jack and his hunters. This shows the high degree of savagery at that point of time. Thus, Piggy's specs not only signified an essential item to be rescued, but also the savagery of the boys and how it slowly developed.
Edmond Chen 2A04
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Post by 2b26tayhanyang on Apr 15, 2008 10:14:36 GMT -5
Hi people, I shall be voicing out my own views on these questions.
1) Social order is a concept used in sociology, history and other social sciences. It refers to a set of linked social structures, social institutions and social practices which conserve, maintain and enforce "normal" ways of relating and behaving as defined from other sources.
At the start of the story, the boys were still very civilised and restrained even though there was the absence of adults. And this normal way of behaving and relating to each other is mantained by the vote for a leader. As there was a need for a leader to decide things and lead to get themselves rescued, Roger thought the best way to elect a leader was to vote, instead of letting Jack take that role just because he wanted to and sing C sharp and being headboy. This showed the rational thinking of the people in the island and people followed the rules and orders then, with a symbol of authority(the conch) to represent the leader or the right to speak. This showed the social order on the island then, deciding on a leader and acting out decisions rationally.
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Post by 2b26tayhanyang on Apr 15, 2008 10:18:20 GMT -5
2) I agree with Edmund that being just a 12 year-old headboy who could sing C sharp, the cilivised and good-natured him would not bear to kill the pig. The sight of bloodshed would probably be of extreme discomfort to him. Therefore, Jack, which at that point of time was still not savagery and just a good and a little defiant school boy, would not kill the pig to stain his hands.
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Post by 2b27pangshiang on Apr 15, 2008 10:20:41 GMT -5
4) Piggy's spectacles significant in the story as both a key to an item vital to both parties on the island, and a trophy of the bearer's power and leadership.
The spectacles signify an item of value, and is a keystone to both tribes' survival. Yet they are small and easy to steal, and have to be guarded carefully and with zeal. The basic use of Piggy's specs are to light fires. These fires are vital to Ralph's society to signal ships, and also used in Jack's society to cook meat. Thus, the spectacles are the key to an important item in both tribes - fire. Since fire is such an important element in both tribes and the only plausible way to light them is to use Piggy's spectacles, the side that has the spectacles has the power to fire on his side and thus the spectacles exhibit the bearer's power.
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Post by 2b26tayhanyang on Apr 15, 2008 10:23:03 GMT -5
3) The conch was a symbol of authority. This was most likely due to the fact that it was this conch which Ralph blowed brought all the stranded boys together. Then, this conch sort of became something that they would look up to. Ralph then set this rule in which only the person with the conch could speak. But soon, like what Edmund had said, this rule was slowly defied by almost everybody, especially Jack, before Ralph was overthrown and alll the things escalate into Piggy's death and the shattering of the conch. In the later chapters of the story, the conch which broke showed the loss of law and order in the island as the boys become savagery.
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Post by 2b26tayhanyang on Apr 15, 2008 10:31:09 GMT -5
Hi all, I will be attempting question four on the significance of Piggy's spectacles.
His spectacles may represent different things, such as intelligence or the fact that it potrays the boys' change of attitudes to take on a more primitive form. Well, you could see Piggy was intelligent, right from the start when Piggy taught Ralph how to blow the conch. Using the spectacles to focus the sunlight on to the branches to make fire seemed to sort of gave importance to Piggy's presence, as an intelligent-being who could help them get out of the island, if the boys would follow that is. But soon, this spectacles was an essential item for survival. Either for fire to create smoke signals for rescure or fire to cook the wild boars, his spectacles slowly showed the change of power from Ralph to Jack. Furthermore, as he arrived in the island, his spectacles were very clean without any scratches, but soon in the later part of the book, one of his lens were smashed and Piggy was only left with one. At the end, His whole spectacles were damaged, this was due to the brute and rash actions of the boys, especially those of Jack, who began to become savagery, mad on hunting boars instead of trying to get rescued.
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 17, 2008 7:36:56 GMT -5
I would like to elaborate on Han Yang's point as quoted "Furthermore, as he arrived in the island, his spectacles were very clean without any scratches, but soon in the later part of the book, one of his lens were smashed and Piggy was only left with one. At the end, His whole spectacles were damaged, this was due to the brute and rash actions of the boys, especially those of Jack, who began to become savagery, mad on hunting boars instead of trying to get rescued. " I feel that when Piggy's glasses were smashed and broken, it probably also symbolises the total loss of connection to adult society of civilization as I have mentioned in my earlier posts. With Piggy's glasses smashed, it prevented the boys from being rescued and also marked the absence of science that was reprenseted through Piggy's specs throughout the previous chapters. Thus, I feel that when Piggy's glasses was broken, it also symbolised the loss of civlization the boys had with the outside world as they could not make a fire anymore. Thank You
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Post by 2cleeyiren16 on Apr 17, 2008 10:27:20 GMT -5
Chapter 1: The Sound Of the Shell
1) What is social order? How does it come about on the island?
Social order is a set of linked social structures, social institutions and social practices which conserve, maintain and enforce "normal" ways of relating and behaving.
It came about on the island as moral and societal constraints are previously imposed and learned by the boys when they are with the adults. They once lived in a constant state of tension to follow rules, behave peacfully and follow orders. Thus on the island, they tried to impose rules too and behave peacefully like civilisd British boys. E.g having a election, talking with the conch, having responsibilities.
However all are short-lived as humans have a savagery nature.
2) Why do you think Jack didn't kill the pig? Jack was the leader of the choirboys in school. He retains the sense of moral propriety and behaviour that society instilled in him. The first time he encounters a pig, he was unable to kill it due to moral restraint.
However soon bloodlust and savagery overwelmed him.
3) What is the significance of the conch? It is a powerful symbol of civilization and order. The shell effectively governs the meetings(those who had the shell speaks). It also symbolises democracy.
However, as the boys decend into savagery, the conch shell loses its power and influence among the boys.
4) What is the significance of Piggy's spectacles? Piggy's glasses represent the power of science and wisdom in society. Piggy is the most intelligent, rational boy in the group. He discovered the conch, build a fire with specs, made a namelist, suggested to have sundial,etc
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