|
Irony
Apr 20, 2008 4:03:16 GMT -5
Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on Apr 20, 2008 4:03:16 GMT -5
Hey all,
There are several types of irony. Usually, though, irony refers to an outcome or a circumstance that is the opposite of what one might expect. It would be ironic, for example, if the shortest basketball player on a team is the highest scorer--or if the most popular, most intelligent, and most attractive student in the senior class was unable to get a date for the prom. Why not let's discuss about the irony moments in Lord of The Flies?
Feel free to post your comments! ;D
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 20, 2008 4:06:11 GMT -5
Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on Apr 20, 2008 4:06:11 GMT -5
Hey all,
In my opinion, examples of irony in The Lord of the Flies include the following:
1. The survivors of the plane crash are boys evacuated from a battle zone in a world war. However, the society they form eventually breaks down, and the children go to war with one another. 2. Piggy's eyesight is weak, but his insight is strong. 3. Much of the irony at the end of the novel stems from Golding’s portrayal of the naval officer. Although the naval officer saves Ralph, the ending of Lord of the Flies still is not particularly happy, and the moment in which the officer encounters the boys is not one of untainted joy. The officer says that he is unable to understand how upstanding British lads could have acted with such poor form. Ironically, though, this “civilized” officer is himself part of an adult world in which violence and war go hand in hand with civilization and social order. He reacts to the savage children with disgust, yet this disgust is tinged with hypocrisy.
(In Short)-->> The British naval officer who arrives to rescue the boys at the end of the novel appears to represent civilization and sanity. But he and the society he represents are actually a mirror image, on a large scale, of the boys and their corrupt island society. 4. When Jack sets a fire to roust Ralph from the forest, he unintentionally saves the lives of all the remaining boys. It was this fire that attracted the attention of the British ship.
Regards, Marcus Chong 2B03
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 20, 2008 4:16:15 GMT -5
Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on Apr 20, 2008 4:16:15 GMT -5
Hey all again,
According to my point number 1 in my previous posts, I am here to talk about the other ironies within this one. Meaning the ironies shown during the formation of their society on the island.
In this novel, Golding depicts destruction, killing, and fear as evil in the heart of man, and uses irony to elaborate on this theme.
One of the first instances of irony is when Jack initially wanted to have many rules, but in the end, it was also him who broke them all. Being the chief of all savages on the island.
Next is Jack’s hesitation in killing the pig when the boys first arrive on the island. This is a complete contrast with the savage chief he becomes. Jack the Schoolboy hesitates in cutting open the pig’s throat “because of the enormity of the knife descending and cutting into living flesh; because of the unbearable blood” (p. 31). Although Jack does not kill the pig, the urge to kill is still within him. Ironically, only the phantom grasp of a warring society that supposedly does not condone killing stops Jack from delivering that fatal blow. Jack the Chief, however, loosens the grip of this society and lets the bloodlust control him to the point of killing other people. He does not flinch at killing people, much less pigs. He is a killer because nothing stops him.
Another instance of irony is the reaction to Piggy’s remark “I know there isn’t no fear...unless we get frightened of people.” The reply to this is laughter and jeering from the crowd of boys. However, this is nothing to be laughed or jeered at. Fear and a leader who utilizes that fear for what he wants eventually controls them. Fear of Jack is the cause of the destruction and killing on the island. Fear of Jack kills Piggy and beats Wilfred. The irony is that they laugh at the idea, and yet it happens.
A third example of irony is that both Ralph and Piggy say that Simon has gone “batty.” Simon is not “cracked” -- his wisdom separates him from the others. However, the driving insanity of fear grabs everyone on Simon’s return, and they beat him to death. The boys’ fear causes them to act irrationally. Even Piggy and Ralph are capable of killing and getting wound up in a frenzy of mutilation and bloodlust. In this animalistic state, both are caught up in a form of temporary insanity and destructive evil. If a rational person like Piggy can succumb to this evil form of insanity, even for an instant, it must be embedded in the person. The evil bloodlusting lunacy lies dormant in everyone. The irony is that after calling Simon “batty,” both Piggy and Ralph exhibit behavior that can only be described as insanity.
Golding places great emphasis on an inner evil, which he believes to be present in everyone. His satire is that a civilized world is having a war and killing people in a “civilized” manner, and he believes that killing is anything but civilized. At the root of this urge to kill is an inherent evil that is primitive and irrational in nature. Golding best portrays this inner demon by contrasting the real situation with the expected situation in irony.
Regards, Marcus Chong 2B03
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 21, 2008 10:12:42 GMT -5
Post by 2cleeyiren16 on Apr 21, 2008 10:12:42 GMT -5
ok.. the irony is that though the writer of this book was the winner of the nobel prize for literature, and this book was later popular, it was only a modest success when it was first published in England in 1954, and it sold only 2,383 copies in the United States in 1955 before going out of print!!!!
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 22, 2008 2:43:28 GMT -5
Post by 2bongyuhao17 on Apr 22, 2008 2:43:28 GMT -5
1)The survivors of the plane crash are boys evacuated from a battle zone in a world war. However, the society they form eventually breaks down, and the children go to war with one another.
2)Piggy's eyesight is weak, but his insight is strong.
3)The British naval officer who arrives to rescue the boys at the end of the novel appears to represent civilization and sanity. But he and the society he represents are actually a mirror image, on a large scale, of the boys and their corrupt island society. 4)When Jack sets a fire to roust Ralph from the forest, he unintentionally saves the lives of all the remaining boys. It was this fire that attracted the attention of the British ship.
if i am not wrong, yiren stop spamming pls. look at ur three post and tell me how u feel about it. I dont think there is anything with copying from other website either. We are sharing our findings with others.
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 28, 2008 8:10:59 GMT -5
Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 28, 2008 8:10:59 GMT -5
I agree with Yu hao. What Marcus had given was just a defination of Irony and I do not see any wrong in quoting the defination from a website. I would like to elaborate on the irony regarding Piggy's insight and eyesight. As quoted from the defination of the dictionary, insight means "the power of acute observation and deduction; penetration; discernment; perception; introspection." When we have finished the whole novel, we will see for ourselves that indeed, Piggy has a very strong insight, constantly giving feedbacks and suggestions to omprove the boys' lives during an assembly. Although he was constantly ridiculed, he still went on to give constrcutive ideas. Piggy's poor eyesight, resulting in him wearing thick and bulky glasses makes him look like a nerd, and thus with this weakness, it contrasts with all of Piggy's suggestions as people view him as a weakling and thus ignore him even if his ideas were good. This is all I have to say. Thank You
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 28, 2008 9:02:46 GMT -5
Post by 2btohjiahui30 on Apr 28, 2008 9:02:46 GMT -5
Do refer to my post in Plot -- Chapter Threads :: Chapter 1: The Sound of the Shell. There's irony mentioned there.
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 29, 2008 1:58:33 GMT -5
Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 29, 2008 1:58:33 GMT -5
I agree with Alcander. This highlights my PREVIOUS post ABOUT FIRST IMPRESSIONS COUNT, right Alcander? I would also like to add that Piggy's apperance made him unpopular as well, although he looks knowledgeable (with the thick glasses, he looks well-read). Thank you. Regards, Wen Kang
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 29, 2008 6:17:04 GMT -5
Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 29, 2008 6:17:04 GMT -5
Thank you Wen Kang for mentioning that first impression counts. I totally agree with your point and I will elaborate more on it. As I have mentioned, Piggy's look made everyone despise him a lot as they thought him of a weakling and thus would not give a second thougt whenever he suggested anything. Only when Ralph, who thought the idea was constructive, would then voice it out to everyone. As everyone had a good impression of him and respected him as a leader, they abided to his suggestion. This thus proves that first impression indeed counts due to the contrast in attitudes they faced between Ralph and Piggy. Thank You
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 30, 2008 1:31:09 GMT -5
Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 30, 2008 1:31:09 GMT -5
Hi all,
Firstly, i would like to agree with Yu hao and Alcander about their views. Personally, i do feel that there is nothing wrong with copying from other website either. We are sharing our findings with others. Furthermore, What Marcus had given was just a defination of Irony and I do not see any wrong in quoting the defination from a website.
Okay, Yi ren, think. If i ask you to give me the correct defination of irony without referring to any references, like the dictionary or websites, can you do it? Hence, to tell us the correct meaning of irony and to let us understand the term, irony, better, he will have to quote the defination from a website. Hence, i feel that there's nothing wrong with Marcus quoting the defination of irony from a website and there's nothing wrong with copying from other websites since we are sharing our findings with others.
Hence, i feel that the forum is a platform for us to share our findings and views.
To conclude, i agree with Yu Hao and Alcander regarding their views and that i hope that Yi Ren will stop spamming, like what Yu Hao said.
What i stated here refers to Jia Hui's post at chapter threads ~ chapter 1, regarding Marcus' post.
Sorry if i have offended anyone.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 30, 2008 1:40:38 GMT -5
Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 30, 2008 1:40:38 GMT -5
Hi all,
I would like to comment on Jia Hui's post about irony.
Personally, i feel that Jia Hui, your post here is irrelevant.
You mentioned that there is irony in your previous post.
In my opinion, you should have brought over your point on irony from the post under chapter threads to this thread here, irony, so that people can easily read and understand your view about irony in LOTF instead of trying to find out your view on irony in your previous post in chapter threads~~chapter 1.
Hence, to conclude, i feel that Jia Hui, your post here is irrelevant and you should tell us your point of irony here instead of asking us to refer to your post in Plot -- Chapter Threads :: Chapter 1: The Sound of the Shell.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 30, 2008 2:16:48 GMT -5
Post by 2adanieltan08 on Apr 30, 2008 2:16:48 GMT -5
Basically , i think irony is much like a paradox - irony ofter causes humour or in Lord Of The Flies' case , dark humour and severe contradiction. For example , Jack wanted a mini civilisation on the island and to have lots of rules to keep them in check. However , from chapter 4 to the end of the novel , Jack himself transformed into the leader of savages, and he himself influenced the other noys to be savages themselves. This is irony , and also points out a fact - after goals are set , a lot of work must be done to ensure the goal is reached , or things just get way worse than before. Another example can be that even though Piggy does not help out with labour and lazes around , Piggy's sense and his brilliant ideas ofter stump Ralph and after his death , Jack finally realises Piggy is a real life symbol of reason and sense on the island , and begins to cherish his way of thinking and also his bright mind. This shows that as Piggy is disliked on the island being different form the other boys as he wore specs and is quite plump , Piggy is also an important asset to Ralph and the mini civilisation opn the island. Finally, the boys have been stranded on the island and thought it to be a safe place away from the war , but however another war emerges within the power of leadership and righteousness between Jack and Ralph's ruling , and that a severe and drastic war of cannibalism takes place on the island, with only Ralph alive from the "good ones" , along with Samneric. This shows that a safe place might not neccesarily be the safest place all the time , and that Jack and his tribe's good adaptation skill actually causes the rest of the boys to be put in danger , proving adaptation to the level of cannibalism might not prove to be an asset after all. Irony exists largely in the novel , as WIlliam Golding's aim is to create a mirror image to the real life world on the island , and have the characters reveal their true sides to each other , with each character representing a value of human ruling - Piggy (sense) , Simon (Justice) , Ralph (leadership) , Jack (dictatorship) .... and blah. Lord Of The Flies basically aims to show contradiction to today's society , and thus irony can be found everywhere in the novel , even in the chararcters themselves. Lol....Did I overdo it? -)B@CK~ST@B(- f33l th3 p@1n . t@st3 th3 1njust1c3. Wr1th3 1n @g0ny.
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 30, 2008 4:35:18 GMT -5
Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 30, 2008 4:35:18 GMT -5
First things first, I feel that what Terre mentioned was correct, that you should not post irrelevant things on this forum. Thus I would also like to ask Terre, were your two post on this thread relevant? Now moving on to my point. I will be writing in regards to the irony of the adults and children where they each display their own side of savagery. As we all know, this book was written in 1954, at the time of the war. With the boys stranded on an island and the adult world fighting a war, the progression of the nove to me seems to be almost the same, thus provoking the behavior of mankind, be it adult or children. This goes on to support the theme of the story, civilization versus savagery. With the boundaries of civilization lifted, mankind quickly descends into savgery. The children are freed from their adult entrapment and the adults, with nobody to control them, display their savage nature. William Golding shows the close similarity of human instincts where adults killed each other mercilessly and the children on the island kill each other who stand in their way, which is the same principle of the adult world. The adults go to war for power just like Jack revolting for leadership. Thus the two scenarios displayed in the stories between the island and the outside makes us believe that indeed savage instincts are hard to be suppressed if civilization is brought up through external factors. The story first introduces the war going on in the adult world by sending down the dead parachutist as a signal to compare the situations both parties were in as they slowly get influenced by the savage instincts within them. Thus, through the two similar scenrios going on at the same, it makes the story ironic as it showed the boundaries set for civilization violated by those who set them and those who were entrapped in it, proving Golding's point to be valid. Thank You
|
|
|
Irony
Apr 30, 2008 7:32:34 GMT -5
Post by 2afanyi10 on Apr 30, 2008 7:32:34 GMT -5
Basically , i think irony is much like a paradox - irony ofter causes humour or in Lord Of The Flies' case , dark humour and severe contradiction. For example , Jack wanted a mini civilisation on the island and to have lots of rules to keep them in check. However , from chapter 4 to the end of the novel , Jack himself transformed into the leader of savages, and he himself influenced the other noys to be savages themselves. This is irony , and also points out a fact - after goals are set , a lot of work must be done to ensure the goal is reached , or things just get way worse than before. Another example can be that even though Piggy does not help out with labour and lazes around , Piggy's sense and his brilliant ideas ofter stump Ralph and after his death , Jack finally realises Piggy is a real life symbol of reason and sense on the island , and begins to cherish his way of thinking and also his bright mind. This shows that as Piggy is disliked on the island being different form the other boys as he wore specs and is quite plump , Piggy is also an important asset to Ralph and the mini civilisation opn the island. Finally, the boys have been stranded on the island and thought it to be a safe place away from the war , but however another war emerges within the power of leadership and righteousness between Jack and Ralph's ruling , and that a severe and drastic war of cannibalism takes place on the island, with only Ralph alive from the "good ones" , along with Samneric. This shows that a safe place might not neccesarily be the safest place all the time , and that Jack and his tribe's good adaptation skill actually causes the rest of the boys to be put in danger , proving adaptation to the level of cannibalism might not prove to be an asset after all. Irony exists largely in the novel , as WIlliam Golding's aim is to create a mirror image to the real life world on the island , and have the characters reveal their true sides to each other , with each character representing a value of human ruling - Piggy (sense) , Simon (Justice) , Ralph (leadership) , Jack (dictatorship) .... and blah. Lord Of The Flies basically aims to show contradiction to today's society , and thus irony can be found everywhere in the novel , even in the chararcters themselves. Lol....Did I overdo it? -)B@CK~~ST@B(- f33l th3 p@1n . t@st3 th3 1njust1c3. Wr1th3 1n @g0ny. Mr Daniel, You did overdo.. 1) for your first point, you might as well say that Jack was the one who said that they would have lots and lots of rules, but in the end he was the one who broke it. 2) Actually I don't see any irony at the second part about Jack. But the first part is correct as Ralph only started Piggy were there after he was killed. (aww too bad you got it right.) 3) Is it... really cannibalism? I thought it was somewhat of a tribe. I did not really see people eating people. Unless you count pigs as humans, hmmmm. Also, another irony was when Piggy fell down the cliff. The book wrote that "Piggy, saying nothing, with no time for even a grunt..." and "Piggy's arms and legs twiched a bit, like a pig's after it has been killed." This created a tragic irony in Piggy's name, as both "grunt" and "like a pig's" suggest that Piggy WAS a pig, but actually he was the brightest among the boys. (since "pig" meant someone was stupid before.) Apart from that, Piggy was in charge of getting all the names from the boys during the first meeting, but throughout the novel we do not know HIS REAL NAME at all. Openus, Fan Yi
|
|
|
Irony
May 1, 2008 4:06:05 GMT -5
Post by 2bterrechua29 on May 1, 2008 4:06:05 GMT -5
Hi all,
just to defend myself against Alcander's criticism about me, i would like to post some things that are RELEVANT to this topic, irony.
One example of irony is Jack’s hesitation in killing the pig when the boys first arrive on the island. This is a complete contrast with the savage chief he becomes.
Firstly, i would like to classify Jack's personalities into two groups: Jack the schoolboy and Jack the Chief.
Jack the Schoolboy hesitates in cutting open the pig’s throat “because of the enormity of the knife descending and cutting into living flesh; because of the unbearable blood” (p. 31).
Although Jack does not kill the pig, the urge to kill is still within him. Ironically, only the "poisonous" grasp of a military society that supposedly does not ignore killing stops Jack from delivering that fatal blow. Jack the chief, however, loosens the grip of this society and lets the bloodlust control him to the point of killing other people.
He does not draw back at killing people, much less pigs. He is a killer because nothing stops him. This is the only difference between Jack the Schoolboy and Jack the Chief.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
|
|