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Post by 2bterrechua29 on May 1, 2008 5:25:43 GMT -5
Terrre, I agree with your view that the littuns are immature.
However, you will also have to acknowledge the view that it was the littuns whom started the rumors of the beast and thus, the ones who were most fearful towards the beast should be the littuns as the other boys did not believe from the existance of the beast and was thus doubtful.
The littuns, however tactily accepted the beast's presence as they claimed to have seen it. As they were immature, they thus believed in a physical magnefestation of the beast and grabbed hold of the opportunity to switch sides to Jack for the sake of their own safety.
Thank You ;DHi all, Firstly, i would like to inform Alcander that you have spelt my name wrongly. Anyway, ALcander, you said that the littluns were immature, they thus believed in a physical magnefestation of the beast and grabbed hold of the opportunity to switch sides to Jack for the sake of their own safety. Personally, i feel that the result of the littluns being immature is not that they thus believed in a physical magnefestation of the beast and grabbed hold of the opportunity to switch sides to Jack for the sake of their own safety. Instead, being immature, they are only capable of following the more dominant speaker, who is Jack and not capable of making rightful decisions about switching sides. Hence, the littluns switch sides to Jack not because they know that Jack can give them safety, like what you said. Instead, they merely followed the more dominant speaker, who is the one that can arouse their attention and this person is Jack. All in all, i disagree with Alcander regarding his view that being immature, the littluns they thus believed in a physical magnefestation of the beast and grabbed hold of the opportunity to switch sides to Jack for the sake of their own safety. This is because being immature the littluns cannot do or perform what Alcander had stated. Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on May 1, 2008 5:33:42 GMT -5
Terre I have already stated, the littluns were immature, and that was the reason why they believed in the existance of the beast as a physical magnefestation, and not the innate human evil that exist within them as they were too young to consider this fact. Only Simon was smart enough to pin point this cleverly but it cost his life. With this thinking that the beast was something they could hunt and kill, they thus switched sides and threw themselves on Jack's lap, entrusting their safety in him. I hope you understand my point. Thank You. (sorry for spelling your name wrongly TERRE)
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Post by 2bwenkang04 on May 1, 2008 7:30:01 GMT -5
Hi all, This brings us to Ms Ngo's question about the Beastie a while back. I agree with Alcander to a certain extent. Firstly, the littleuns are 6 or 7. Not many children this age listen to debates and get involved with political issues. I say that Alcander's view of Jack providing safety for the littleuns come as an added bonus. In real life, the crowd always follows the more dominant speaker that stands out. Since we have said and agreed that the littleuns represent the community in real life, we can say that they listen to Jack, the more dominant speaker. Frankly, when Jack said that he was a hunter and 'we will get rid of the beast' or something like that, I can infer that the 'we' refers to the biguns. Hence, I agree with Alcander to a certain extent because not only Jack could provide the littleuns with safety. Ralph could, but it was not his priority. Thank you Wen Kang
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Post by 2amarcusgohsy12 on May 3, 2008 3:47:31 GMT -5
Hi all
1) On the personality of Jack. I think Jack had become more confident on being a hunter after his face was painted. It can be seen from Jack wanting to go hunting immediately after painting his face and that he could think of strategies hunters use in hunting on the spot right after he painted his face.
2) I think that the littleuns remain nameless throughout the whole novel is because: Firstly, they are not major characters Secondly, the littleuns are portrayed as burden to the biguns: Beast (fear created), more attention required from the biguns to keep an eye on the littleuns.
Marcus Goh
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Post by 2b19qiyun on May 3, 2008 6:49:36 GMT -5
(1) As Jack's is painted, he is no longer recognized as Jack but a "awesome stranger". Thus he is no longer restrained by his self-conciousness and he is influenced by the evil that is inside everyone's heart, accounting for the changes in personality.
Thx, RQY
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Post by 2bjosephlim10 on May 3, 2008 11:50:34 GMT -5
1) Why do you think Jack's personality changes when he applies the coloured clay to his face? 2) The older boys call the small boys "littluns". What is the function of this label? What does the fact that they basically remain nameless convey about their purpose in the story? To reply to the Qs: 1) When Jack applies coloured clay to his face, he is so called "covered" from his shame or disgrace when he does something bad. For example when he goes hunting and kills the pig. In this case, he is not accustomed to killing a creature, be it pig or something else. Thus, he feels shameful or disgraceful, however, with the coloured clay on, he is shielded from such effects, hence, his personality changes freely because he does not have anymore restrictions. 2) The term, "littluns", is used to label the smaller boys. They use this term to collectively name all the smaller boys, those who are around 6 years old. The fact that the smaller boys remain nameless conveys the message that the smaller boys plays an unimportant role in the whole story books. Either that, or it conveys the message that the smaller boys are "incapable of helping out". The term "littluns" should be orginated from the word "little". This also conveys the message that the smaller boys are somewhat helpless in this situation and that they count on the bigger boys to help them survive. Perhaps the term "littuns" conveys the message stated above. Ragards Joseph
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Post by 2alouisngia22 on May 4, 2008 2:03:47 GMT -5
1) Why do you think Jack's personality changes when he applies the coloured clay to his face?
I think the mask changes his personality as it lets Jack show the darker side of him that had been constraint by the laws of society before. Also, as he hid behind the mask, he was free to show his brutal self which had been overshadowed by his civilised teachings. Thus, they could then kill with accuracy as they would not be pulled down by their principles, being "liberated from shame and self-consciousness".
regards, Louis Ngia
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Post by 2akennethleong14 on May 5, 2008 2:21:45 GMT -5
Hi all i will answer question 1 first =)
1) Why do you think Jack's personality changes when he applies the coloured clay to his face? This is because the coloured clay acts as a mask in which Jack can hide behind an do whatever he please. Once Jack had aplied the clay to his face, it shows that jack has g one savage, it shows that the beast has already taken over Jack, and after he had put the coloured clay, Jack went barberic. Because of the mask, jack can hide his shame and embrassement and bring out his true savageness
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Post by 2akennethleong14 on May 5, 2008 2:25:47 GMT -5
2) The older boys call the small boys "littluns". What is the function of this label? What does the fact that they basically remain nameless convey about their purpose in the story?
The littluns remain nameless throughout the whole novel because Mr William Golding wants to symbolise the littluns as the common people of every country under the control of the government. They are used to show who will people follow in the real world. In the novel, the leaders are Jack and Simon, they are like presidential candidates and the littluns are the general people and the littluns must elect one of them and follow his orders.
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Post by 2b23kevin on May 10, 2008 3:42:46 GMT -5
I will be answering both questions now.
1) The mask sort of conceals Jack's true identity. It makes him feel like he gained some power or became someone powerful just by the act of putting on the mask, just like the way kids think that they are their favourite superheros and have their powers when they put on their costumes. When Jack feels powerful, he feels that he can break the rules and do whatever he wants and get away with it. Even if he gets caught for his actions, he will feel no shame as the mask made him "liberated from shame and self-consciousness".
2) The littluns were given the name "littluns" as they did not speak up much and were the ones making important decisions in the book. They were, as many people have stated, symbolic of the people in the world. They do not speak up during assembly, do not make important decisions and just bothered about playing just as we, the common people, do not have a role in the government, how it is run and we are only bothered about our work and our own lives. The biguns are the major characters who make important decisions for the tribe, just as our leaders make important decisions for the country.
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Post by 2climzhengjie21 on May 17, 2008 23:53:49 GMT -5
Hi all, I'll be answering both qustions 1 and 2. 1)I think Jack's personality changes when he applies the coloured clay to his face as he saw himself transform into a savage when he looked at his reflection in the water. The line " He looked in astonishment, no longer at himself but at an awesome stranger" shows how Jack did not fear the new appearance he took on, but was instead compelled to become more bloodthirsty and barbaric as the mask gave him immense power and command over the other boys. At the start, Jack wanted to apply the clay on his face as he thought that he could use it as a mask for hunting, and like in the war, which all involved killing. Therefore when Jack hid his face behind that mask which was something on its own, he took on a more savagery side and his personality changed drastically from being civilised to being somewhat demonic. This can be further proved as the mask Jack wore was bold in colours - "He made one cheek and one eye-socket white, then he rubbedred over the other half of his face and slashed a black bar of charcoal across ffrom right ear to left jaw". This scary appearance made his face seem rather contorted and deformed, resulting in him looking like a monster rid of any signs of human nature, and replaced with a deadly personality threatening to kill. Lastly, Jack was not at all troubled by the loss of his civilised identity when he bore the mask on his face, but became more excited that he beheld the power to slaughter all animals when he went hunting. This shows that his personality is strongly affected and changed when he applies the coloured clay to his face. 2)The older boys call the small boys "littluns" as this label means that the small boys were still young and immature. The fact that they remain nameless and are labelled as "littluns" portays them as being a indecisive majority who act as followers under the leadership of Jack and Ralph. While Ralph and Jack compete to prove themselves worthy of being the leader of the children, the littluns sway from taking sides with Jack to Ralph and vice-versa, thus helping the readers to gauge the amount of support each leader had from the majority. Also, the fact that the littluns basically remain nameless makes the readers focus as a whole on how the characteristics of the majority on the island turn from being civilised to being savagery, as a result of the negative consequences that occured when the leadership baton was in time passed to Jack when the children on the island did not believe in order anymore and turned to support Jack instead of Ralph. Therefore, the fact that the small boys remain nameless throughout the story help show the readers the personality change of the boys on the island from the start till the end of the story.
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Post by 2cgalileoyap07 on May 19, 2008 4:05:43 GMT -5
2) About the generic terms "littlun", it suggests that the smaller ones are less significant and unimportant, but i feel that there is another side to it. There is a post by James on the matter also, he states that they are useless through their actions. Lets say you imagine that the littluns are the general masses, and Jack and Ralph and the other biguns, are the political leaders of the society on the island. The littluns, at first seem insignificant, even proving to be a burden at times, but however in the course of the story they seem to be more and more important to the leaders. The votes of the leaders at the start of the story is actually rather important, if you come back to that part, you can see it was some sort of showing of support of the leader that you wanted to "govern" the society. In real life, it can be shown as two presidential candidates, trying to vie for the top position. If most of the littluns go to one leader and support him, and showing dislike for the other candidate, even the biggest leader will feel that he is rather powerless to mass attacks by the other leader. Littluns, like the public, once there is one candidate increasing his momentum and apparently winning the "election", it is rather obvious that the littluns would flock to the winning candidate. This theory is proven by real life examples, like the Obama vs Hillary presidential contest, as Obama gains momentum, support for the once powerful Hillary will wane and "defect" to the other side, as in the the support of the "superdelegates". In summary, I feel that the role of the littluns is important but often misunderstood and misinterpreted. Cheerios, Galileo a.k.a Gerbil.
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Post by 2adionloy09 on Aug 16, 2008 5:11:28 GMT -5
1) jack's personality changes when he puts on the mask because after he does so, he can do whatever he likes without having to bother about being shamed. in fact, the mask gives him "power" that makes him more confident and power-hungry, since he is hiding behind a mask, he is free to do as he likes. he is then taken over by the savage insitinct in him, because he is blinded by the mask and thus makes him braver and bolder, in the end, he lost control of himself and gave in to his own primal instincts.
2) the smaller boys are called littluns because of their unimportance in the "government" on the island, as seen when later in the story, jack makes use of them to fulfill his desires. they are like servants or followers of the older boys, and play a small role in the story, as most of the main characters are the older boys. the term "littluns" also seems to suggest about the inferiority of the smaller boys, and this is true as older boys tend to be bigger in size and smarter as well.
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Post by Laure on Jun 7, 2011 20:18:10 GMT -5
1) Why do you think Jack's personality changes when he applies the coloured clay to his face? Although Jack has been deeply envious of Ralph's power from the moment Ralph was elected, the two do not come into open conflict until this chapter, when Jack's irresponsibility leads to the failure of the signal fire and his deep desire to kill a pig. When Jack painted his face with clay, it shows himturning from an urban boy becoming into a savage wildman. Another point to prove this is when the fire, a symbol of the boys' connection to civilization¡ªgoes out, the boys' first chance of being rescued is thwarted. Ralph flies into a rage, indicating that he is still governed by desire to achieve the good of the whole group. But Jack, having just killed a pig, is too excited by his success to care very much about the missed chance to escape the island. Indeed, Jack¡¯s bloodlust and thirst for power have overwhelmed his interest in civilization. Whereas he previously justified his commitment to hunting by claiming that it was for the good of the group, now -after he had painted his face with clay- he no longer feels the need to justify his behavior at all.
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