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Post by S2Lit2008HCI on Mar 28, 2008 3:39:01 GMT -5
Post your answers as replies to this thread. Do NOT start a new thread!
1) Reread the last eight paragraphs of this chapter. What kinds of imagery does Golding use in this section and what do you think he is trying to convey? Why do you think he chose to include this section at this point in the book?
2) Why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book?
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Post by 2chuyongda10 on Apr 5, 2008 22:49:16 GMT -5
Hi all, I will be posting about question 2.
At this point, the conflict between Jack and Ralph intensifies. However, Simon, meanwhile, seems to exist outside the conflict between Ralph and Jack, between civilization and savagery. We see Simon¡¯s kind and generous nature through his actions in this chapter. He helps Ralph build the huts when the other boys would rather play, indicating his helpfulness and discipline. Simon helps the littluns reach a high branch of fruit, indicating his kindness and sympathy¡ªa sharp contrast to many of the older boys, who would rather torment the littluns than help them. In this regard, Simon emerges as an important figure to contrast with Ralph and Jack. Where Ralph represents the orderly forces of civilization and Jack the primal, instinctual urges that react against such order, Simon represents a third quality¡ªa kind of goodness that is natural or innate rather than taught by human society. So, we can conclude that Simon is a person who is kind by nature.
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 6, 2008 1:31:39 GMT -5
I will be answerg answering question 1 posted by Miss Ngo first.
1) Reread the last eight paragraphs of this chapter. What kinds of imagery does Golding use in this section and what do you think he is trying to convey? Why do you think he chose to include this section at this point in the book?
I think that William Golding wanted to show us how closely connected Simon was to nature by writing those paragraphs.
Notice that at this point of the story; most of the boys were more or less occupied with their own things. Ralph focussing on recreating the society lost and promoting civilization while Jack occupied with hunting with his group of hunters and the littluns playing with all their might. However, we all know that Savagery is beginning to dawn on them and although Ralph was strongly connected to civilization, this quality was still brought up in him through external forces like the presence of adults. Only Simon has time for nature and really hearing and seeing every minute detail, immersing himself in nature rather than being intruded by the influence of savagery and thus displays his innate human nature at the same time at this point of the story.
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 6, 2008 1:41:10 GMT -5
2) Why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book?
There is a focus on Simon at this point in the book to show and develop Simon¡¯s character to the full potential. At this point of the story, the presence of Ralph and Jack¡¯s resentment towards each other can be significantly felt by everyone when they had erupted into a heated verbal argument. Ralph, being strongly committed to civilization, wanted to create a lost society when stranded on the island like building huts etc. However, Jack, obsessed with his new passion for hunting, gives no qualms regarding the problems they face and prioritizes hunting instead. With their different views on human purpose, their friendly feelings begin to change, just like the two instincts present in the novel that contradict each other. With Simon as the focus at this point, it shows us how outstanding his personality is as compared to the others. He exists outside the conflict between civilization and savagery. Simon is closely connected to nature as can be seen when Simon went to the forest glade displays and displays a true innate pureness and innocence. His kindness was further magnified by the examples of him helping the smaller children collect fruits, which is a sharp contrast to that of Roger and Maurice.
His attitude suggests to us that Simon acts morally right not because of moral values he was brought up in, but rather his belief in the inborn values of morality. This is evident from the behavior of the rest of the boys. With their civilization from external forces, it is beginning to erode away at this point of time as the temptations of savagery sinks in. However, only Simon¡¯s way of behavior remains the same as of the beginning and also emerges as an important character between the two conflicts. Thus, when Simon is introduced at this point of the story, it unknowingly created a third scale and quality between the major conflicts of civilization and savagery, and that is the true innate nature of mankind, rather than the constraint imposed by the society.
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Post by 2czhengxuan26 on Apr 6, 2008 3:10:49 GMT -5
hi all =D i will be doing question 2 posted by ms ngo. so here it is.
2) why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book?
There are 3 "main" focuses at this point. Ralph: the main leader, the one that represents orderly leadership. Jack: the one that represents the evil in the human's heart, the savage "monster" within us, our primal instincts. Simon: the one that represents the "purity" of a human's heart, the one that is natural, without the constraints of society or authority.
These 3, although shown in the form of people, actually represent qualities in our modern day society. Ralph signifies authority and leadership, and can be seen from how he is chosen to be leader, and hosts assemblies to discuss affairs regulary. Jack signifies the evil within EVERYONE's hearts, and can be seen from how he turned into a savage hunter, only knowing how to kill and hunt, and is "obsessed" over blood spilled from his prey. Simon, on the other hand, signifies the purity and the helpfulness we have in our hearts, without any influence from other things, unlike Ralph and Jack. this represents the natural state of our heart: one that is pure. This can be seen from how he helps the other littluns pick fruits, unlike the other bigguns. Thus, Simon is focused in this part to show the contrast between these 3 sides of our societies, the authority "system" we have now in our society, the evil in our hearts, influenced by power or lust, and the purity in our hearts, the natural state everyone started in.
thank you and please comment >__<
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Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on Apr 6, 2008 3:40:06 GMT -5
Hey all, I'm here to give my views on Question 2.
Basically I agree much with Yong da's views and opinions, so now I'm going to elaborate more on his points. ^_^
Simon, meanwhile, seems to exist outside the conflict between Ralph and Jack, between civilization and savagery. We see Simon’s kind and generous nature through his actions in this chapter. Some of these examples are, he helps Ralph build the huts when the other boys didn't even care, showing his kindness, discipline, and helpfulness. Simon helps the littluns to get some fruits to eat, showing his helpfulness and sympathy, and again a great contrast to the older boys, who wouldn't care a single bit to help the littluns.
When Simon sits alone in the jungle glade marveling at the beauty of nature, we see that he feels a basic connection with the natural world. On the whole, Simon seems to have a basic goodness and kindness that comes from within him and is tied to his connection with nature. All the other boys, meanwhile, seem to have inherited their ideas of goodness and morality from the external forces of civilization, so that the longer they are away from human society, the more their moral sense erodes.
In this regard, Simon is shown as a vital figure to contrast with Ralph and Jack. Ralph represents the orderly forces of civilization and Jack the one who opposes such order. But Simon represents a third quality, a kind of goodness that is natural rather than taught by human society. In this way, Simon, who cannot be categorized with the other boys, complicates the symbolic structure of Lord of the Flies. Therefore being important, there is a focus on him at this point of the story.
Regards, Marcus Chong 2B03
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Post by 2cjamesquah28 on Apr 6, 2008 3:57:16 GMT -5
Hey all, I'll be answering Question 1 for now. Question 11) Reread the last eight paragraphs of this chapter. What kinds of imagery does Golding use in this section and what do you think he is trying to convey? Why do you think he chose to include this section at this point in the book? The last eight paragraphs of this chapter is filled with imagery. What do we define imagery as? Imagery is any series of words used to create a mental image, figure, or likeness of a person, place or thing. It is intended to make the reader feel more interested and more emotionally involved in the work by creating a mental image of the subject. -Wikipedia ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagery ) So what kinds of imagery does Golding use? Firstly, he uses imagery to create a mental image, likeness and figure of Simon as well as depicting the island itself. So, Golding actually described Simon using imagery. This can be supported in page 70 where " The coarse mop of black hair was long and swung down, almost concealing a low, broad forehead." On page 71, he also used imagery to depict Simon as a caring, compassionate character by the "Simon found for them the frut they could not reach, pulled off the choicest from top up in the foliage, passed them back down to endless, outstretched hands." by creating a mental image in our minds that he actually is a "giver". Hence, at this point, Golding is actually conveying the message to us that Simon is actually a very kind and compassionate person and is also "outside of the circle between" Ralph as civilisation and Jack as savagery. From the last 6 paragraphs, the concentration of imagery actually switched from Simon to the island. Additionally, at this point, Golding actually ultilized a massive usage of imagery and indicated alot of negativity of the depiction of the island. This can be seen on page 71 " The whole space was walled with dark aromatic bushes, and was a bowl of heat and light. A great tree, fallen across one corner, leaned against the trees that still stood and a rapid climber falunted red and yellow sprats right to the top." The most important quote comes from page 72, " The deep sea breaking miles away on the reef made an undertone less perceptible than the susurration of the blood." and " Darkness pourted out, submerging the ways between the trees till they were dim and strange as the bottom of the sea. The candle-buds opened their wide white flowers glimmering under the light that pricked down from the first stars. Their scent spilled out into the air and took possession of thei island." Hence, these sentences emphasizes the negativity of the island that kind of "follows Simon whenever he went" which could imply Simon's death was impending from the sardonic atmosphere. I think Golding chose to include this sectio at this point in the book to show that things were getting out of hand as Ralph and Jack's tension and souring of relationships were escalating. This can be supported by page 70, "They looked at each other, baffled, in love and hate. All the warm salt water of the bathing pool and the shouting and splashing and laughing were onlyjust sufficient to bring them together again." Hence, i think the reason the author placed this section at this point is to "show readers" that this part actually marks the start of the story whereby, Ralph and Jack were going to break apart and cause alot of negative effects as well as the introduction of Simon that could actually mean Simon's dark future. That is all for now, I hope you guys can tolerate my post. Regards, James
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Post by 2cpekjiehui27 on Apr 6, 2008 4:46:21 GMT -5
Hi people
I shall now post my view on question 2.
2) Why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book?
At this point of the book, the quarrels of Jack and Ralph becomes more and more distinct. Ralph is blaming Jack for not getting any meat back for the tribe with Jack insisting that he will not give mercy to the pig next time. At that point of time, Simon stands out from everyone else in a few ways:
1) He actually helps Ralph, unlike the others who were having fun themselves.
2) Simon stands out by telling Jack and Ralph that the beast definitely did not exist.
3) He was described as "burned by the sun" instead of "burned to gold" like the others.
4) Simon helped the littluns to pick fruit which they could not reach.
These suggests that Simon had a very outstanding character, a character that stands out from the rest of the boys. Then later in the book, Simon's abstinence from meat actually showcased him as quite a 'saintly' figure. Therefore, the author wanted to focus on Simon's character as the purity of the human heart, in contrast to the Lord of the Flies which showed the evil of the human heart. This links to the modern society of having no motives in anything one does, and the presence of the pure and only thought of helping others.
Please post your views and comments.
Regards, Jie Hui
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Post by 2bongyuhao17 on Apr 6, 2008 4:59:05 GMT -5
2) Why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book?
In this part of the story, the conflict between Jack and Ralph seems to intensifies. The spotlight then falls on Simon. Simon is an unsung hero who helps out very often. At this point of the story, Jack indulges himself in hunting which reflects on his savagery. While Simon's character stands out from him. Being a helpful and kind boy, Simon is unlike Ralph and Jack. Jack has a strong desire for power while Ralph is holding on tightly to his conch for fear of losing his power. Simon does not want any power. He does his best to contribute and enjoys the nature on the island. Therefore, his contrasting disposition would inevitably make him the focus. Simon is a boy who is not one who is constantly trying to find opportunities to be in the limelight, unlike Ralph and Jack. Simon helps out the other boys without any complaints. He does not expect any thing in return (e.g respect from the other boys) for helping out unlike Jack. Though not obvious, but Jack often shows readers that he possess a personality which is his good deeds must be reciprocated like respect fromthe other boys.
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Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on Apr 6, 2008 8:20:52 GMT -5
Hey all, giving my views on Question 1.
1) Reread the last eight paragraphs of this chapter. What kinds of imagery does Golding use in this section and what do you think he is trying to convey? Why do you think he chose to include this section at this point in the book?
I think that Golding used imageries related to the nature to perhaps show how closely connected Simon is to the nature, having a kind of goodness that is natural rather than taught by human society.
At this point of time in the story, Ralph and Jack's relationship are getting worse and tensions are building high. Besides, both of them are now busy with their own stuffs like Ralph promoting civilization and upholding law and order, whereas Jack gets real occupied with hunting, inclined to savagery. So Golding clutched this opportunity and time to focus more on Simon. He perhaps wants to show his basic connection with the natural world, that he has a basic goodness and kindness that comes from within him and is tied to his connection with nature. Also to display his innate human nature, not being intruded by any influences of savagery, civilization or anything else.
The other boys abandon moral behavior as soon as civilization is no longer there to impose it upon them. They are not innately moral; rather, the adult world—the threat of punishment for misdeeds—has conditioned them to act morally. Unlike all the other boys on the island, Simon acts morally not out of guilt or shame but because he believes in the inherent value of morality.
Regards, Marcus Chong 2B03
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Post by 2cangrayyan03 on Apr 7, 2008 7:43:04 GMT -5
Hi all, these are my views: 1) Firstly, I would like to make a note that all the Imagery used here describes the contrast between the good and the bad of everyone on this island. From this point I shall then further elaborate. Notice how many terrible conflicts there were and how hard they always try to slaughter the pig before this eight paragraphs? My answer is yes. So, after filling the reader with so much terrible things, I think this is the perfect opportunity for William Golding to start to let the readers feel the contrast from the start till this very part, to let readers know that there is such a contrast, in case it wasn't obvious. Well, if you think it is a bad reason, here's another. To describe Simon. As you realized, the these eight paragraphs mainly talk about Simon, nothing else. So, it centers around firstly his appearance like "The coarse mop of black hair" (p. 70), and the character inside him standing out from all others, even from leaders like Ralph and Jack (note that I consider Jack a leader as he at least commands the choir). So lets move on to details. Simon is portrayed as a kind, caring person. Examples include plucking fruits for the little 'uns, helped in most work while the others were playing instead, and it seems that he likes to hide in this secluded spot , a kind of "cabin", where he can enjoy Mother nature, and he needs to be alone due to the fact that the rest were influenced by the "beast" already, so there he was, alone, grounded in his own beliefs, which proved to outshine the others in terms of conduct and helpfulness. So, including this section in this particular part of the book makes the reader see the whole group from a new perspective, at least for first-timers who read till this chapter. One would probably feel that what they all did was for survival purposes, and nothing was so strange about it. This probably changed the way they think, but rather get the slightest sense of what the "beast" is. 2) First and most evident reason, to show contrast between the civilized world and the changes in between for the rest of the characters like Jack (most obvious) , Ralph and others. This has been briefly explained in the above question, so I shall go on elaborating. This, I believe, is the turning point of most characters from good-natured children to savagers, and adding Simon here would be used as a measure on the drastic changes between the other characters. Focus on Simon here also draws attention to the better aspects of this island, after the only things that has been constantly repeated, killing of pigs, getting stranded on an island, the "beast" and the fire on the mountain. It now mentions more of the scenery and Simon, how they are equally alike, and how bad the others were that portrayed this wonderful island (other than the wild fruits) as a kind of abattoir, thus Simon probably resembles how good the really good were, how terrible the not truly good were. Second, maybe not so obvious, is to show some qualities of Leadership, so different from that of Jack or Ralph, which probably would have the support of most people. In this part, Simon takes on the role of "a caring person with a loving heart", and proves to the reader that Ralph, giving orders and rather irresponsible manner sometimes, nor Jack, insane about killing and filled with arrogance is never suitable as a leader. Simon has demonstrated the abilities to show care and concern for the others, is diligent, and provides the first impression of "servant-leadership" when he does all his services to the group, an example picking fruits for the little 'uns. Outstanding as he is, it is a pity that he is not selected as chief, main reason being Ralph having the conch. If he was leader, things could have turned for the better (it always should in this book), but never. To conclude, Simon plays an important role in showing contrast both between the savagery and his kindness and the qualities of being a leader, and finally at this point only he is described to give a different perspective. Feel free to comment on anything you wish. Regards, Ray Yan
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Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 7, 2008 8:57:11 GMT -5
2. I think that there is a focus on Simon is because of the fact that Simon is like in a third-person's point of view and he looks at things from a person that is not involved's point of view. I think that Simon is directly connected to nature because he spends more time in the jungle and admiring the scenery while everyone is concerned in surviving. I think that Simon is only mentioned now because when everyone is fighting and starts to bicker, he is like the only one oblivious to the situation and helps out whenever he can. He also spends time in the forest, so this can show that Simon is very peaceful. Hence, there is a focus on Simon because the author is developing the story, in which people in the tribe are starting to quarrel. However, Simon remains neutral and peaceful, and somewhat oblivious in a sense. He can thus be portrayed as the true and maybe the peacelover in the story. Thank you.
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Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 8, 2008 1:48:46 GMT -5
Hi all, I agree with Alcander for question 1 but I would also like to add more points to his reply. I think that Golding also wanted to convey the inner 'peace' in the island. I also think that Golding wants to say that even though there is bickering which then leads on to fighting, the island is still peaceful, and oblivious to whatever is happening to the boys. He also, like Alcander said, wanted to show us how Simon was closely connected to nature. In this point of the story, the boys start to bicker over differences in their opinions which later, results in fighting and Jack leaving the group. I think that Golding chose to include this section at this point of the book is due to the fact that in this chapter, signs of the boys having disagreements is quite common. I think that Golding wanted to evoke the sense of peace and tranquility on the island which contrasts with the boys' noisy quarrels and such. I also think that Golding wants to show that the island is beautiful in its own sense. This is due to the number of descriptives in the chapter, such as 'the candle-buds opened their wide white flowers glimmering under the light that pricked down from the first stars' Thus, Golding perhaps also wanted to show the island's inner beauty. Thank you.
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Post by 2btaytianwen28 on Apr 11, 2008 9:00:38 GMT -5
2) Why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book?
This chapter protrays Simon as one who does his best about doing things and is oblivious to the situation.From certain parts of this chapter , we can also deduce that Simon has a mysterious personality.
From the converstion between Ralph and Jack, it is known that Simon helped Ralph in the building of the huts ore than any other boy on the island. This is evident from the line "All the rest rushed off.He's done as much as [Ralph] has". Instead of rushing off to enjoy , to have fun on the island, he instead voluntarily assists Ralph in the building of the shelters, while Jack goes off hunting, and his fellow hunters out at sea swimming.
In this chapter, Simon is often in the forests wandering about and admiring the beauty of nature -- the calls of various birds, the sound of the sea, he was the only person who seemed to appreciate the magnificinet masterpiece nature has created of this island, while Ralph and Jack continue their bitter quarrel over trivialties and over the authority of chief. He is somewhat has the values of a monk ( minus the bald head) -- restraining from issues of the world , restraining from materialistic desires. He strays away from the situation around him , and does not pursue the leadership of the boys.
Also, ralph stated that he found Simon queer and funny. Adding on this, Simon cut in Ralph and Jack's conversation by interruptinf them with an astonishing reply. Simon is a listener. He does not talk much , but when he does, his words hold great wisdom. Such a character is rather mysterious.
From their different personalities, as marcus has alreasy pointed out , Ralph symbolisations civilisation , the foundation of the character of the modern man , while Jack symbolises savagery and the characteristics of the primitive man ( a.k.a men of the neolithic age). Simon belongs to neither category, but rather somewhere beyond that of civilisation, for he has a soul with an affinity with kindness, the beauty of nature , and purity. His values cannot be imparted by the dreadlock of humanity, and will not be lost to savagery.
Do post any comments.
Thanks,
Tian Wen Link to Post - Back to Top Logged
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Post by 2bongyuhao17 on Apr 11, 2008 23:54:11 GMT -5
1) Reread the last eight paragraphs of this chapter. What kinds of imagery does Golding use in this section and what do you think he is trying to convey? Why do you think he chose to include this section at this point in the book?
Golding is making use of all the words related to darkness and evil. At this point of time, the disharmony between Jack and Ralph intensifies and this was ominous. It spelled trouble for the boys. This can be seen from "the coarse mop of black hair was long and swung down, almost concealing a low, broad forehead" , "Tall trunks bored unexpected pale flowers all the way up to the dark canopy... the air here was dark too" , "slope of the bars of honey-coloured sunlight decreased" , "darkness poured out submerging the ways between the trees till they were dim and strange as the bottom of the seas". I think Golding was trying to hint that all was not going well and that something very wrong was about to happen. Golding specially chose this part of the book as the story have progressed till here. The boys were starting to show signs of savagery. Ralph and Jack were constantly at loggerheads and the conflicts could not be resolved. They boys at this point are starting to lose themselves. This all reflects on the dim future that lies ahead. With all the imagery that signified darkness, Golding had chosen the right place to show the darkness ahead of the boys.
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