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Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 19, 2008 8:46:52 GMT -5
Alcander, in your previous post you did not mention anything about books except for the fact that the book was written in the year 1954. Furthermore, I did not see any elaboration about books, but on television and cartoons. Hence, I got the false impression that you were agreeing to a certain extent to Han Yang's point about everything. I apologise for pointing out a correct mistake in your case. Thanks, Wen Kang.
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Post by 2candrewwong01 on Apr 20, 2008 3:09:19 GMT -5
i will just be talking about Q.2 first.
2) Do the rules that Ralph introduces in the assembly make sense? Yes, indeed the rules make sense. The rules made by Ralph were: 1. Only the person with the conch can talk. 2. There must always be a person to tend the fire. 3. Do your business behind the bathing pools. These rules were rather mandatory and quite standard. Rules were definitely needed on the island to maintain a standard of civilization and Ralph implemented some easy ones so that they could remember. But however simple they were, they still got broken. Actually, all these rules have meanings. The first is to convey the issue on respect and authority, that everyone knows. The second rule, is basically to maintain their hope of being rescued by keeping the fire going. The third rule is just maintain a good standard of hygiene for the rest of the people and healthiness too. These rules still got broken by Jack and his hunters because of their playfulness. Jack always made it a habit to interrupt Piggy whenever he voiced his opinions even though Piggy had the conch in his hand. Jack again together with his hunters neglected the fire when they went hunting and caused every single person on the island to lose an opportunity to get rescued. The third rule was broken by the littluns who usually did their business around the bathing pool which was a very disgusting and unhygienic thing to do.
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Post by 2candrewwong01 on Apr 20, 2008 3:26:42 GMT -5
i will be posting on Q.1...
1) Are there any hints of a possible conflict yet between Ralph and Jack at this stage of the novel? Give evidence to support your answer.
Of course there are hints of conflict between them. The main conflict evident is the conflict of interest. While Ralph focuses more on the NEEDS, the survival and efforts to possibly be rescued, Jack is focusing more on the WANTS, things that people would like and things they would enjoy doing.
On page 49, while Ralph is talking about something serious, to get a fire going so that ¡°If a ship comes near the island they may not notice us. So we must make smoke on top of the mountain. We must make a fire¡±. Ralph¡¯s main intention at this point is so that they could quieten down and discuss the ideal location and probably how they should split the work but Jack on the other hand creates a sort of uproar and immediately turns the tables towards his side. ¡°A fire! Make a fire! At once half the boys were on their feet. Jack clamored among them, the conch forgotten. Come on! Follow me!¡± After this everyone had left leaving Ralph and Piggy behind probably thinking ¡±What the heck just happened?!¡± In that split second, Jack had brushed away all the rules, forgetting the conch. This also shows how the rest of the people rather have fun collecting wood than listening to meetings and assemblies. Jack had put aside Ralph¡¯s title as chief and simply gone off with everybody without the permission of Ralph. Ralph is probably rather angry with jack at this point while Jack still continues thinking about fun.
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Post by 2cderborne17 on Apr 20, 2008 5:36:41 GMT -5
Hi all, I'll be attempting question 1 today
1) Why do you think children imagine monsters? Why do you think the island triggered the fear of a 'Beastie' in the small boy's mind?
Personally, I feel that the children were feeling extremely paranoid about the environment that they were in. As the scene of being stranded on an island always compliments the thought of a "beast" on the island too. At their current age, the children should have watched horror movies before and with their childish, immature and vivid imagination, they thought that there was a beast living on the island. During the night, the children will experience poor and blur vision. Hence, it will not be surprising and is possible that the ropes hanging on the trees and the creepers on the jungle floor will appear like snake "beasts" to them. Furthermore, the feeling that they were in danger on a deserted island with no adults to take care of them may have also triggered the "beast" incident. The feeling of insecurity under their chief, who could not give the children a sense of security strong enough to counter the thought of "beasts", is also another reason why they could have imagined "beasts". The island triggered the thought of "beasts" in the children's minds as there were many unknown places on the island. For example, the cave which Jack and Ralph thought the beast would be in. These places will spark fear within the children, especially the younger one. Additionally, when the younger ones felt scared, it affected the older ones too. They began to feel scared all together and this even affected Ralph, Piggy and Jack too. Hence, due to these reasons, the children thought of "beasts" on the island. Thank you, Derborne xD
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Post by 2cderborne17 on Apr 20, 2008 8:35:39 GMT -5
Hello all, today I shall answer question 2. 2) Do the rules that Ralph introduces in the assembly make sense?
In my opinion, I strongly agree with Ralph's perspective of the situation on the island. He implicated several rules during assemblies. For example, the rule that was broken many times in the story, the rule that requires the child to have the conch in order to speak. Though this rule was broken several times, especially when Piggy was speaking. However, its introduction made a strong change to the entire story. Without this rule, there may not be ANY law and order at all on the island. Even though the conch only provided temporary and little law and order on the island, it still did. Therefore I strongly agree with the rules Ralph introduces. Additionally, the rule that the boys had to do their toilet business behind a bush was a crucial point of law and order. The boys were thinking of having fun all the time, they hardly care where they do their business. Even though there is not much civilization on the island, the location of the "toilet" is very important. Hygiene is very important on the island. If the boys were to suffer from a disease, it would spread like a wild fire if they did not care of their personal hygiene. Therefore, I agree with Ralph and the rules he introduces. Furthermore, the rules Ralph introduces are very meaningful and they pose a great impact on the lives of the children on the island. Hence I strongly agree that Ralph's rules are meaningful. Thanks, derborne
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Post by 2btaytianwen28 on Apr 20, 2008 8:37:10 GMT -5
Hi all,
I would like to comment on Derborne's post: "During the night, the children will experience poor and blur vision. Hence, it will not be surprising and is possible that the ropes hanging on the trees and the creepers on the jungle floor will appear like snake "beasts" to them. "
You stated that during the night, the children will experience poor and blur vision. Are you sure? Is there contextual evidence to stake your claim? In my opinion, the children, more or less refering to the littluns, hallucinate due to post-stress trauma and other causes, and thus think that ropes hanging on the trees and the creepers on the jungle floor will appear like snake "beasts" to them. Also, as stated from previous posts, it could also be due to the stereotypical mindset the littluns possess and strong influence under horror stories.
This is just a suggestion. Do correct me if i'm wrong.
Thanks,
Tian Wen
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 21, 2008 5:46:02 GMT -5
I will like to comment on Derborne's post too. I feel that you are somewhat contrdicting yourself yourself by saying that Ralph's rule makes sense but no one actually carries it out. Yes, I agree with you that Ralph's rule makes sense to a certain extent but if Ralph's suggestions were good, then why didn't the people on the island abide to it? Thus I feel that the problem does not lie with Ralph's rule. I feel that the problem lies with the littuns on the island. I also agree with Tian wen's inquiry of what made you sure that during the night, the children will experience poor and blur vision? I hope that you will be able to elaborate on this soon and clarify this misunderstanding. Thank You
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Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 21, 2008 6:59:28 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I would like to defend Derborne's post. Tianwen, I think what Derborne was trying to convey is that it is hard to see in the dark. The littleuns (and also everyone) have no night-vision goggles to check whether the ropes on the trees are beasts. I don't think that contextual evidence is needed because obviously, humans don't evolve and change into something else in around 50 years and also, we ourselves cannot really see in the dark. So I kind of agree with Derborne. However, I also agree with Tianwen that the littleuns hallucinate due to post-stress trauma and other causes, and thus think that ropes hanging on the trees and the creepers on the jungle floor will appear like snake "beasts" to them. It could also be due to the stereotypical mindset the littluns possess and strong influence under horror stories. Hence, I think that there are many factors affecting the littluns' interpretation of the beast. Thank you Wen Kang
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Post by 2cderborne17 on Apr 22, 2008 5:14:42 GMT -5
;DToday, I'll be answering question 3. 3) Are there any hints of a possible conflict yet between Ralph and Jack at this stage of the novel? Give evidence to support your answer.
Firstly, what is a conflict? I feel that conflicts are the results of many arguments. Conflict is the hatred for someone or something. It can be compared to war, when people kill each other because of hatred. Therefore, if the minor arguments and disagreements Ralph and Jack face continues, it will definitely lead to a conflict. In chapter one, page 27," Out of this face stared two light blue eyes, frustrated now, and turning, or ready to turn, to anger." This shows that Jack already felt annoyed during his first encounter with Ralph. In the same chapter, page 30," And the freckles on Jack's face disappeared under a blush of mortification." This could have made Jack jealous and full of hatred toward Ralph. They also argued when Jack did not kill the pig. Ralph's tone toward Jack was meant to spite him, hence Jack got terribly annoyed. This will definitely spark conflict between the two of them. Furthermore, when the boys were arguing if there was a beast, Ralph denies desperately that there is no beast on the island. However, Jack was all excited of killing the beast, if there was one. This irritated Ralph a lot and hence, at this point of the novel, Ralph and Jack may create possible conflict. Thank you, feel free to comment Derborne
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Post by 2bgweeyongxiang7 on Apr 27, 2008 8:30:10 GMT -5
Hi all,
I'll be posting my analysis for question 1 in this post.
Why do you think children imagine monsters? Why do you think the island triggered the fear of a "Beastie" in the small boy's mind?
Firstly, we need to understand that the boys in the story are still young children, with the youngest at 6. In reality, most of these children are still very dependent on their parents and have a lack of security. A good example is that small children like to sleep with their parents. I'm sure many of us did that when we were smaller. This gives the children a sense of security.
In the story, these children are a far, far away from home. Hence they lack the sense of security, which triggered the imagination of a "beast". They may enjoy themselves in the day but at night when silence falls, they will be afraid. The shadows of the trees around may also look like claws or something scary. Also, they are sleeping by themselves. When asleep, one loses the ability to move about, hence when they have nightmares they can't "run away". When they have nightmares, they will think that what happened in their dreams actually exists and thus they will think that there's a beastie on the island.
That's all for question 1. Yong Xiang 2B07
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 28, 2008 3:29:57 GMT -5
I will be writing in support in Yong Xiang's post. I agree with his point that the reason the children on the island imagined the presence of the beast was because they lack the sense of security, which triggered the imagination of a "beast" annd also due to the stereotypical mindset the littluns possess and strong influence under horror stories. At the start of the story, all the boys all long to get rescued, even Jack and go home. However, as the story progresses, the boys on the island get swayed towards their savagery instincts and slowly forget their names(Percival) and the meaning of rescue. Even Ralph, who has a strong commitment towards civilization knew that the fire signal was something good, but could not remember exactly what good it has until he was reminded by Piggy. This also proves that one of the reasons the littluns switch sides to Jack's group was because of Yong Xiang's point of insecruity. They were all willing to put aside Jack's arrogant and domineering behavior just for the sake of their own safety and secruity where they could do everything as a group. Thank You
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Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 28, 2008 6:11:56 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Alcander but I would like to stress on the fact that the reason why littleuns switched sides to align with Jack is not only due to the factor discussed above, but also due to the fact that Jack was more charismatic, and first impressions always count.
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 28, 2008 6:14:55 GMT -5
Thank You Wen Kang for pointing that out. However, I feel that Jack, although charismatic, does not gain the approval of the littuns. He has a arrogant style that is untolerable. Thus, I feel that charisma does not play a very significant role in Jack's leadership over the boys. Thank You
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Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 29, 2008 2:05:25 GMT -5
Thank you for pointing that out Alcander. However, at the first one or two chapters, Golding depicts Jack as a very charismatic boy. However, we only know Jack's true colours in the subsequent chapters ahead. We are discussing about Chapter 2 here, so I think that due to the fact that none of the boys there had psychic powers that allowed them to see the future, we can say that the boys THOUGHT that Jack was a good leader (due to his charisma, which prevented the boys from seeing his true colours). That is why I am highlighting again that first impressions count. Jack did gain approval of the littleuns, at the start of the novel. When Ralph was talking about fire, Jack came and said, "Follow me!" or something, then all the littleuns came rushing and followed Jack. Hence, I feel that Jack's so called charisma played a role (to a certain extent) in Jack's leadership over the boys. Thank you. Regards, Wen Kang
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 30, 2008 2:10:48 GMT -5
Hi all,
I am writing in support of Yong Xiang's post.
I agree with him that the children imagined the presence of a beast on the island because of the lack of security since there are no adults on the island to give them the sense of security they needed.
With the fact that the youngest child present on the island is 6, the young children may not have been all alone on a place away from their parents before. Hence, without their parents or someone mature who is close to them, to give them support and the sense of security they needed, they tend to be scared and will start imagining things like the presence of a beast on the island.
As time pass, the longer the young children are stranded on the island, the more frightened they will be and the more they will believe in the presence of the beast. Unless, their parents are there on the island with them to tell them that there is no such thing like a beast in the world, they will believe that is a beast on the island forever, until they are mature enough.
As young children, their thoughts will be sort of immature and the most important thing that they need very much is the sense of security from adults like their parents, who are closer to them in terms of relationships.
Hence, i strongly agree with Yong Xiang that the reason why the children imagined the presence of a beast on the island is the lack of the sense of security.
Furthermore, i feel that Yong Xiang had stated a good point. He stated that when asleep, one loses the ability to move about, hence when they have nightmares they can't "run away". This, in my opinion, is a very good point made.
All in all, i am writing in support of Yong Xiang's post.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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