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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 20, 2008 8:57:20 GMT -5
Hey all, I am here to confess that i have spelt "Saddam Hussein" wrongly and i feel very guilty and sorry. That's all. Just joking My main objective of posting this post is to comment on Wen Kang's post. Yes, i agree Wen Kang that Jack is not a good leader, but what i am trying to say is Jack certainly has portrayed some good leadership skills, so this makes Jack a good leader to certain extent. Probably, i should have stated Ralph as a good leader. I should have stated Ralph as a good leader. Thanks for pointing out anyway, Ralph...erm...Wen Kang. Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2btaytianwen28 on Apr 20, 2008 9:12:23 GMT -5
Hi all,
i would like to comment on terre's post on wen kang's comments.
Terre, i disagree with you, to a certain extent. Ralph is neither a lousy leader, nor was he one who exalted perfect leadership skills. He was charismatic, a little sensitive to others, at times rash and does not see things in a wider perspective. But however, the laying down of rules, the conch as a symbol of authority -- these were all brainchildren of Ralph, which kept the boys' descend into savagery under constant check ( you know what i mean, right?).
In conclusion i do agree that Ralph was a good leader , but to a certain extent. After all, nobody's perfect, right?
Do post any comments
Thanks,
Tian Wen
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Post by 2cleeyiren16 on Apr 20, 2008 9:26:50 GMT -5
The Lord of the Flies is an allegorical novel.
An allegory is a literary work in which characters, events, objects, and ideas have secondary or symbolic meanings.
Plane Crash: Failure or breakdown of society in the world outside; spread of corrupting ideas. Forest Scar: This path of destruction through the forest, caused by the crashing plane, appears to represent the encroachment of corrupt civilization on the pristine island Island: Before the arrival of the boys, the Garden of Eden; after the arrival of the boys, the corrupted world of humankind Conch: Civilized authority, democracy Eyeglasses of Piggy and Piggy Himself: Insight, wisdom, knowledge Death of Piggy and Destruction of Conch: Failure or breakdown of society on the island Signal Fire: Hope Imagined Beast: Fear, superstition. (The boys imagine that a monster in the form of a snake, a sea monster, an ape, or other ......."beasties" that they dream about lurks nearby.) Dead Parachutist: The beast. (In fact, the parachutist is a beast, for he has taken part in a war to kill fellow human beings.) Chanting and Dancing of the Hunters: Blind emotion, loss of reason Logs on Which Ralph and Jack Sit: Seats of authority; thrones The Big Boys: The emerging generation of evil The Little Boys: The next generation of evil The Naval Officer: The present generation of evil The Killing of the First Pig: Original sin The Killing of the Second Pig, the Sow: Release of perverted, Oedipal urges Jack's Knife, Sticks Sharpened Into Spears: Weapons of war in the macrocosmic world; phalluses as representations of masculine aggression Jack and Ralph: Perhaps Cain and Abel (although Ralph does not die, as Abel did in the Bible) The Impaled Pig's Head (Lord of the Flies): The evil in every man's heart
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 20, 2008 9:26:56 GMT -5
Hey all,
I would like to comment on Tian Wen's post.
Yes, Tian Wen, i agree with you that nobody is perfect and Ralph do have some bad personalities that showed that he might not be a good leader.
However, although he do have some bad personalities like being rash, he, in my opinion, is one of the best leaders, on the island and probably the best.
Hence, i am agreeing with Tian Wen that he may not be an excellent leader, but he is actually the best leader on the island, which is among the boys.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2cjaredkoh13 on Apr 21, 2008 8:12:39 GMT -5
Piggy (and Glasses) It represents: a) Wisdom b) Patience c) Far-sightedness
The Conch It represents: a) Authority b) Democracy c) Law and Justice
Simon It represents: a) Nature - loving b) Calm c) Innocent
Roger It represents: a) Violent character b) Submissive c) Strong
Jack It represents: a) Communism (The Bad Guys) b) Rebellion c) Bloodthirsty
The Island It represents: a) A living environment similar to the real world b) Living monster that gradually alters the children's thinking c) A place where violence takes place
The "Scar" It represents: a) Purposely unsolved mysteries b) Barricade of safety to danger c) Destruction of mankind
The Beast It represents: a) The 'sleeping' evil in man b) A largely dominant character of violence in man c) Does no harm in civilisation
Thank you
Lord of the Flies The Devil, which signifies great danger or evil.
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Post by 2bongyuhao17 on Apr 22, 2008 2:50:12 GMT -5
Plane Crash Failure or breakdown of society in the world outside; spread of corrupting ideas. Forest ScarThis path of destruction through the forest, caused by the crashing plane, appears to represent the encroachment of corrupt civilization on the pristine island ConchCivilized authority, democracy Eyeglasses of PiggyInsight, wisdom, knowledge Death of Piggy and Destruction of ConchFailure or breakdown of society on the island Signal FireHope Imagined BeastFear, superstition. (The boys imagine that a monster in the form of a snake, a sea monster, an ape, or other "beasties" that they dream about lurks nearby.) Chanting and Dancing of the HuntersBlind emotion, loss of reason Logs on Which Ralph and Jack Sit onSeats of authority; thrones The Naval OfficerThe present generation of evil Jack's Knife, Sticks Sharpened Into SpearsWeapons of war in the macrocosmic world; phalluses as representations of masculine aggression The Impaled Pig's Head (Lord of the Flies) The evil in every man's heart www.cummingsstudyguides.net/
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Post by 2btaytianwen28 on Apr 22, 2008 4:12:52 GMT -5
Hi all,
Jared, i would like to comment on your symbolism analysis on Jack
Jack It represents: a) Communism (The Bad Guys) b) Rebellion c) Bloodthirsty
Communism as defined by various websites
system of political and economic organization in which property is owned by the state or community and all citizens share in the common wealth, more or less according to their need.(www.britannica.com)
a system of social organization in which property (especially real property and the means of production) is held in common.(www.infoplease.com)
In my opinion, i feel that the style of government that Jack uses to rule over his tribe of savages is perhaps one that is totalitarian or dictatorial, for power to decide and govern is given to only one person -- the chief of the tribe. Communism is much more different, evident from the definition above.
Thus, i feel that Jack does NOT signify communism but rather one of a dictator.
Do post any comments.
Thanks,
Tian Wen
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 22, 2008 5:27:29 GMT -5
I would like to touch on the theme regarding the loss of innocence. As the boys on the island started on from well-behaved and civilized children who hope to be rescued under the leadership of Ralph to cruel and bloodthirsty hunters like Jack who have no desire to return to civilization, they naturally lose the sense of innocence or pureness that they possessed at the beginning of the novel, unknown of the human capacity of evil. The savages potrayed at the end of the story is totally different from when they first set their foot on the island. I feel that the purpose for this theme is because Golding wanted to show us that civilization suppress and entrap but never wipe out the innate evil instincts that exists within all human beings. The loss-of innocence-theme is also represented symbolically by the forest glade in which Simon sits in. At first, it is a place of closely connected to nature. But when Simon returns later in the novel, he discovers that the forest glade was polluted by the bloody sow¡¯s head impaled upon a stake in the middle of the clearing, thus symbolising the loss of innocence. Simon's death also symbolised the total loss of innocence as when he was killed, the rest of the boys remaining on the island including Ralph were a little swayed towards savgery. I will elaborate more in my next post. Thank You
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 28, 2008 7:54:21 GMT -5
Terre, regarding your post, I agree with your point that Ralph was the best leader to a certain extent. In my opinion, I feel that Simon makes the best leader as he possesses the true innate goodness without any external forces driving him through. He do good not because of the adult boundary but because he feels that he should do so. Thus with this trait, he will be able to treat everyone fairly and impartially. Although Piggy is intellectual, however he is too fat and has totally no charisma to persuade the people on the isalnd. Thus, I feel that Ralph makes a good leade but I feel that Simon would be an even better leader. Thank You
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Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 29, 2008 7:18:37 GMT -5
Hi all, I agree with Alcander to a certain extent. I agree that Simon would have made a good leader. However, Simon did not display any sort of important or visible traits of a leader, other than being pure and innocent. Simon merely helped build the shelter; he did not initiate the building of the shelters- Ralph did. A good leader is one who takes self-initiative and has leadership. Simon however, is not depicted as a person who has leadership, but a nice person who tries to help out in anyway. I don't think that Simon showed any visible and clear traits of charisma. Please correct me if I am wrong. However, I agree that Simon is a nice person, but if he had showed some kind of leadership skills, he would have been a better leader (Even I admit that myself. ). If in the passage I have overlooked Simon's leadership, we can say that Simon cannot be compared to Ralph, or even to Jack in terms of charisma and leadership. This is because for both boys, the masses listened to them. However, for Simon's case, I don't think that he was as good compared to them. Thank you Regards, Wen Kang
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 29, 2008 7:42:54 GMT -5
Wen Kang, the point I am trying to put across is that the reason I feel that Simon would make a better leader than Ralph because he treats everyone the same, without any biaseness. This trait in Simon was overlooked by Jack and Ralph as they both did not possess this trait. As you have mentioned, first impression counts and Simon's impression left on the boys certainlymade a great impact on the islanders. Even Ralph treated him with respect and regarded him differently from the others. When the boys needed help, the first person they would turn to is Simon before considering Ralph and Piggy. Thus, I feel that indeed Simon would make a good leader. Thank You
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Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 29, 2008 7:58:41 GMT -5
Yes, Alcander, but you see, Simon did not possess any leadership traits at all. I agree that Simon treats everyone the same without biasness, and everyone goes to him for advice and such, he did not stand out outstandingly as a leader because Simon did not command a whole army of hunters or did he get elected as chief. As I said, first impressions count. The FIRST impression that Simon made on the boys was not showy and it was pretty under the radar and quiet. The first time the boys met up, Simon hardly spoke. Jack and Ralph, on the other hand, made better first impressions. All in all, even though Simon is such a nice and helpful boy, I agree that Simon can be a leader, provided he fufilled some of the criteria of being a leader other than being a nice person.
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 29, 2008 23:52:39 GMT -5
Hi all,
I will be touching on the themes of the story.
The Need for Civilisation
This theme is one of the most obvious themes in the novel, which is man's need for civilization.
Contrary to the belief that man is innocent to society evil, the story shows that laws and rules, policemen and schools are necessary to keep the darker side of human nature in line.
When these institutions and concepts slip away or are ignored, human beings will slip to a more primitive part of their nature.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 29, 2008 23:56:10 GMT -5
Hi all,
I will be touching on the themes of the story.
Innocence and the loss of it
The existence of civilization allows man to remain innocent or ignorant about his true nature.
Although man needs civilization, it is important that he is also aware of his more primitive instincts. Only in this way then he will be able to reach true maturity.
Golding implies that the loss of innocence has little to do with age but is related to a person's understanding of human nature.
It can happen at any age or not at all. This loss of innocence by coming to terms with reality is necessary if humanity is to survive.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 29, 2008 23:58:40 GMT -5
Hi all,
I will be touching on the themes of the story.
The loss of identity
Civilization separates man from the animals by teaching him to think and make choices.
When civilization slips away and man go back to his more primitive nature, his identity disintegrates.
The boys use masks to cover their identity, and this allows them to kill and later to murder.
The loss of a personal name shows the loss of identity too.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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