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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 16, 2008 2:59:05 GMT -5
Hey all, here to express my views on the themes and symbolism of the story.
Please feel free to express your views too.
Symbolism plays an important part in the development of this story. It gives a significance to certain people or objects and here are the examples of symbolism used throughout Lord of The Flies.
Piggy (and Glasses) Clear-sightedness, intelligence. This represents the status of social order.
The Conch Democracy, Law and Order
Simon Pure Goodness, Christ-like
Roger Evil, Satan
Jack Savagery, Anarchy
The Island A representation of the world.
The "Scar" Human's destruction, destructive forces
The Beast The evil residing within everyone, the dark side of human nature.
Lord of the Flies The Devil, which signifies great danger or evil.
There are many other aspects in the story that may be considered symbolism, but the several above are probably the most significant.
Another good example of symbolism is the shape of the island. The boat shape of the island is an ancient symbol of civilization. The water current around the island seems to be "flowing backwards," giving the impression that civilization may be going backwards for the island or its inhabitants.
Do feel free to post anything on Themes too.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by Sean Lee 2A16 on Apr 16, 2008 4:06:32 GMT -5
SYMBOLISMTHE CONCH Piggy mentioned early in the story that the conch was used to call someone. On the island, not only did the boys use the conch to call for a general meeting, they also tried to be orderly, in which only whoever has the conch can speak. Therefore, the conch symbolises power and authority.
PIGGY In the context of the story, Piggy is pictured as somewhat of a "nerd", which is evident from line "I've been wearing specs since I was three" (pg. 14, line 2). Also, the fact that he is called Piggy tells us that he is an obese kid, probably one who studies all day and does not get much exercise. Last but not least, Piggy is the most intelligent among all the boys trapped on the island at that time.
PIGGY'S GLASSES To Ralph, he cannot do without the glasses because he needs them every morning to make the smoke fire. The spectacles symbolises rescue for Ralph.
More updates coming soon...
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Post by 2bongyuhao17 on Apr 17, 2008 5:00:50 GMT -5
Symbolism The Conch Shell Ralph and Piggy discover the conch shell on the beach at the start of the novel and use it to summon the boys together after the crash separates them. Used in this capacity, the conch shell becomes a powerful symbol of civilization and order in the novel. The shell effectively governs the boys’ meetings, for the boy who holds the shell holds the right to speak. In this regard, the shell is more than a symbol—it is an actual vessel of political legitimacy and democratic power. As the island civilization erodes and the boys descend into savagery, the conch shell loses its power and influence among them. Ralph clutches the shell desperately when he talks about his role in murdering Simon. Later, the other boys ignore Ralph and throw stones at him when he attempts to blow the conch in Jack’s camp. The boulder that Roger rolls onto Piggy also crushes the conch shell, signifying the demise of the civilized instinct among almost all the boys on the island. Piggy’s GlassesPiggy is the most intelligent, rational boy in the group, and his glasses represent the power of science and intellectual endeavor in society. This symbolic significance is clear from the start of the novel, when the boys use the lenses from Piggy’s glasses to focus the sunlight and start a fire. When Jack’s hunters raid Ralph’s camp and steal the glasses, the savages effectively take the power to make fire, leaving Ralph’s group helpless. The Signal FireThe signal fire burns on the mountain, and later on the beach, to attract the notice of passing ships that might be able to rescue the boys. As a result, the signal fire becomes a barometer of the boys’ connection to civilization. In the early parts of the novel, the fact that the boys maintain the fire is a sign that they want to be rescued and return to society. When the fire burns low or goes out, we realize that the boys have lost sight of their desire to be rescued and have accepted their savage lives on the island. The signal fire thus functions as a kind of measurement of the strength of the civilized instinct remaining on the island. Ironically, at the end of the novel, a fire finally summons a ship to the island, but not the signal fire. Instead, it is the fire of savagery—the forest fire Jack’s gang starts as part of his quest to hunt and kill Ralph. The BeastThe imaginary beast that frightens all the boys stands for the primal instinct of savagery that exists within all human beings. The boys are afraid of the beast, but only Simon reaches the realization that they fear the beast because it exists within each of them. As the boys grow more savage, their belief in the beast grows stronger. By the end of the novel, the boys are leaving it sacrifices and treating it as a totemic god. The boys’ behavior is what brings the beast into existence, so the more savagely the boys act, the more real the beast seems to become. The Lord of the FliesThe Lord of the Flies is the bloody, severed sow’s head that Jack impales on a stake in the forest glade as an offering to the beast. This complicated symbol becomes the most important image in the novel when Simon confronts the sow’s head in the glade and it seems to speak to him, telling him that evil lies within every human heart and promising to have some “fun” with him. (This “fun” foreshadows Simon’s death in the following chapter.) In this way, the Lord of the Flies becomes both a physical manifestation of the beast, a symbol of the power of evil, and a kind of Satan figure who evokes the beast within each human being. Looking at the novel in the context of biblical parallels, the Lord of the Flies recalls the devil, just as Simon recalls Jesus. In fact, the name “Lord of the Flies” is a literal translation of the name of the biblical name Beelzebub, a powerful demon in hell sometimes thought to be the devil himself. Ralph, Piggy, Jack, Simon, RogerLord of the Flies is an allegorical novel, and many of its characters signify important ideas or themes. Ralph represents order, leadership, and civilization. Piggy represents the scientific and intellectual aspects of civilization. Jack represents unbridled savagery and the desire for power. Simon represents natural human goodness. Roger represents brutality and bloodlust at their most extreme. To the extent that the boys’ society resembles a political state, the littluns might be seen as the common people, while the older boys represent the ruling classes and political leaders. The relationships that develop between the older boys and the younger ones emphasize the older boys’ connection to either the civilized or the savage instinct: civilized boys like Ralph and Simon use their power to protect the younger boys and advance the good of the group; savage boys like Jack and Roger use their power to gratify their own desires, treating the littler boys as objects for their own amusement. www.sparknotes.com
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Post by 2bongyuhao17 on Apr 17, 2008 5:02:53 GMT -5
ThemesTwo themes are mentioned: Civilization vs Savagery, Loss of innocence Civilization vs. SavageryThe central concern of Lord of the Flies is the conflict between two competing impulses that exist within all human beings: the instinct to live by rules, act peacefully, follow moral commands, and value the good of the group against the instinct to gratify one’s immediate desires, act violently to obtain supremacy over others, and enforce one’s will. This conflict might be expressed in a number of ways: civilization vs. savagery, order vs. chaos, reason vs. impulse, law vs. anarchy, or the broader heading of good vs. evil. Throughout the novel, Golding associates the instinct of civilization with good and the instinct of savagery with evil. The conflict between the two instincts is the driving force of the novel, explored through the dissolution of the young English boys’ civilized, moral, disciplined behavior as they accustom themselves to a wild, brutal, barbaric life in the jungle. Lord of the Flies is an allegorical novel, which means that Golding conveys many of his main ideas and themes through symbolic characters and objects. He represents the conflict between civilization and savagery in the conflict between the novel’s two main characters: Ralph, the protagonist, who represents order and leadership; and Jack, the antagonist, who represents savagery and the desire for power. As the novel progresses, Golding shows how different people feel the influences of the instincts of civilization and savagery to different degrees. Piggy, for instance, has no savage feelings, while Roger seems barely capable of comprehending the rules of civilization. Generally, however, Golding implies that the instinct of savagery is far more primal and fundamental to the human psyche than the instinct of civilization. Golding sees moral behavior, in many cases, as something that civilization forces upon the individual rather than a natural expression of human individuality. When left to their own devices, Golding implies, people naturally revert to cruelty, savagery, and barbarism. This idea of innate human evil is central to Lord of the Flies, and finds expression in several important symbols, most notably the beast and the sow’s head on the stake. Among all the characters, only Simon seems to possess anything like a natural, innate goodness. Loss of InnocenceAs the boys on the island progress from well-behaved, orderly children longing for rescue to cruel, bloodthirsty hunters who have no desire to return to civilization, they naturally lose the sense of innocence that they possessed at the beginning of the novel. The painted savages in Chapter 12 who have hunted, tortured, and killed animals and human beings are a far cry from the guileless children swimming in the lagoon in Chapter 3. But Golding does not portray this loss of innocence as something that is done to the children; rather, it results naturally from their increasing openness to the innate evil and savagery that has always existed within them. Golding implies that civilization can mitigate but never wipe out the innate evil that exists within all human beings. The forest glade in which Simon sits in Chapter 3 symbolizes this loss of innocence. At first, it is a place of natural beauty and peace, but when Simon returns later in the novel, he discovers the bloody sow’s head impaled upon a stake in the middle of the clearing. The bloody offering to the beast has disrupted the paradise that existed before—a powerful symbol of innate human evil disrupting childhood innocence. www.sparknotes.com
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Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on Apr 17, 2008 8:46:31 GMT -5
<>THEMES I agree much to Yu Hao's points. Am here to elaborate more.
<>Leadership/Power There are always people who, in a group, come out with better qualities to be a leader than others. The strongest person however, become the greater influences which the others decide to follow. However, sometimes the strongest person is not the best choice. In Lord of the Flies, Golding shows how humans select this stronger person to give an understanding of the different powers that people can posses over others. Showing the theme of LeadershiP.
<>Civilisation VS. Savagery / Loss of Innocence / Society William Golding presented numerous themes and basic ideas that give the reader something to think about. One of the most basic and obvious themes is that society holds everyone together, and without these conditions, our ideals, values, and the basics of right and wrong are lost. Without society's rigid rules, anarchy and savagery can come to light. Besides, I think that the theme was to trace the problems of society back to the sinful nature of man. He wrote the book to show how political systems cannot govern society effectively without first taking into consideration the defects of human nature.
The defects of human nature are exemplified in Golding’s novel through the characters of Jack and his hunters. Here, Golding shows that men are inherently evil; if left alone to fend for themselves, they will revert back to the savage roots of their ancestors. This is seen in the novel near the end, when the tribe is hunting Ralph. Matters had become quite out of hand by this time. Even the naval officer who saves the boys knows their society has become savage.
Yet Golding’s last comment in his press release criticizes not only the boys on the island but also the society of adults in which the officer lives. Golding asks— while the ship saves the boys from killing each other, who will save the ship from killing other ships or being killed? In this way the society of the outside world mirrors the island society on a larger level. Remember that the novel takes place during World War II. Golding got the idea for the book because of his experiences in the war, where he served in the Navy and learned the inherent sinfulness of man. It’s interesting that the war is mentioned indirectly at the beginning and end of the novel but nowhere in between. This is a remarkable literary device of Golding.
<> Some Secondary Themes 1# People will abuse power when it's not earned. 2# When given a chance, people often single out another to degrade to improve their own security. 3# You can only cover up inner savagery so long before it breaks out, given the right situation. 4# It's better to examine the consequences of a decision before you make it than to discover them afterward. 5# The fear of the unknown can be a powerful force, which can turn you to either insight or hysteria.
Regards, Marcus Chong 2B03
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Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on Apr 17, 2008 9:06:21 GMT -5
<>Symbolism I agree very much with Yu Hao's points. Good job on the detailed elaborations. I will be posting my simple views on them now.
<>The Beast The Beast is the evil that resides within man. The children were all aware that such a beast exists, but none of them realized (except Simon) that it lies within them. Manifested in three forms throughout the story, the Beast constantly plagues the littluns, the least conditioned by society.
<>Ralph Ralph represents law, order, organized society and moral integrity. Throughout the novel he is constantly making commonsense rules for the boys to follow. As chief, he knows right from wrong. At the end of the novel he too realizes that man is not a kind creature by nature. Anarchy finally hunts down society in the end, but Golding does not let us know which side would win without intervention.
<>Jack Jack (and his tribe) represent anarchy. Jack did not have the integrity to keep the Beast at bay. He is the perpetrator of all three deaths that occur on the island and wishes to spend his time hunting (killing) instead of helping Ralph with rescue.
<>Piggy Piggy symbolizes knowledge and morality. Without Piggy to help Ralph it is very possible that Ralph may have lost sight of things and given in to the Beast. Jack, who, throughout the novel systematically removes the forces opposing him, is scornfully afraid of Piggy and eventually kills him to eliminate his moral influence on the group, which conflicts with his plan to rule with a triibalistic, survivalist morality.
<>Simon Simon represents natural human goodness. He is the Jesus-like figure in the story, and his meeting with the Lord of the Flies and his subsequent death could be considered equal to certain events in the Bible (Jesus' temptation by Satan and subsequent crucifixion). Simon helps the littluns gather fruit in the forest, just as Christ cared for the children.
<>Roger He represents clearly the example of humans and their destruction of each other. He also represents sadism and torture to the extreme. Being Jack' Right-Hand man, he is in charge of creating fear, without being conscious of the immorality of his actions. He is overcome by the evils of the island, or himself.
<>Littluns They represent the plebeians and masses who are swayed from one leader to another, but are required by a leader to rule over. It could be argued that Golding uses them to demonstrate the masses' apathy of politics, as the littluns are more interested in falling off a log at meetings than in contributing their ideas
<>Older boys They eventually become the tribe on the island, suffering much under Jack's leadership. They also show the degeneration of the island civilization, turning from the 'choir' to the 'hunters' and finally to the 'savages'. They may be seen to represent the military in time of war and are certainly violent in nature and unreasonable in outlook..=)
<>The Conch The Conch is a symbol of the high hand of authority. Used to call meetings, it is magical to the boys, who for the most part respect it. In the end, when it is destroyed, authority on the island is gone and Ralph is left to fend for himself.
<>The Signal Fire The Signal Fire is a representation of commonsense and rescue from immorality. When the signal fire can no longer be lit, because Jack stole Piggy's specs that light it, its beacon of hope and knowledge is no longer present to guide Ralph who must then be constantly reminded by Piggy about what is right.
<>Piggy's Specs It can represent the power of science and intellectual endeavor in society. Alternatively, Piggy's Specs being not a clear symbol in the novel, their being first broken, then stolen by Jack, it could also mean or show a slow and inescapable descent into anarchy and evil.
<>The LOTF The Lord of the Flies represents the Beast's danger and power. According to E. L. Epstein, lord of the flies is a translation of the Hebrew Baalzevuv (Beelzebub in Greek). It has been suggested that is was a mistranslation of a mis transliterated word...for the Devil... In the story the panic and decay that takes place is symbolized by this pig's head. In its talk with Simon it explains what the Beast really is.
Regards, Marcus Chong 2B03
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 17, 2008 9:52:26 GMT -5
Hey all,
I will be approaching an analysis of the themes in Lord of the Flies.
Lord of the Flies had numerous themes and basic ideas that give the reader something to think about.
One of the most basic and obvious themes is that society holds everyone together, and without these conditions, our ideals, values, and the basics of right and wrong are lost. Without society's rigid rules, anarchy and savagery can come to light.
This novel also shows that morals come directly from our surroundings, and if there is no civilization around us, we will lose these values.
Other themes in Lord of The Flies include:
Problem of Evil
Outlets for violence
Effects of fear
Speech and Silence.
Will be touching more on the themes stated above soon...
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 17, 2008 10:09:10 GMT -5
Hey all,
I will be elaborating on the theme, Effects of fear
Lord of the Flies shows the effects of fear on both the individuals and groups in the novel.
For individuals, fear distorts reality such as Samneric’s terror at spotting the dead paratrooper that magnifies their experience from merely seeing movement and hearing the parachute to being actively chased down the mountain as they flee.
When the other boys hear Samneric’s tale, they do not band together to overcome this fearful situation through unity but instead allow their own worst impulses to control, dividing themselves into opposing groups and killing things because of fear and savagery.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 17, 2008 10:16:28 GMT -5
Hey all,
I will be touching on the theme, Speech and Silence.
This theme is very special, in my opinion.
Lord of the Flies represents verbal communication as the sole property of civilization while savagery is non-verbal, or silent. Despite the animal noises in the jungle, the jungle emits a silence even the hunter Jack finds intimidating.
In fact all the boys find silence threatening; they become agitated when a speaker holding the conch in assembly falls silent.
The conch plays a key role in this theme because it symbolizes not only to the authority to speak during assembly but also the ability of speech, an ability that separates humans from animals.
Following the death of Piggy and the destruction of the conch, “the silence was complete” as if Piggy provided the last support for human intellect — or humanity itself — on the island.
Hence, speech and silence can also be considered as one of the themes in Lords of the Flies.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2btaytianwen28 on Apr 18, 2008 8:11:50 GMT -5
Hi all,
I would like to comment on terre's first post, on what symbolises what.
Simon: Christ-like? Christ is the symbol of christianity , a representation of true purity and truth. But to say that Simon is christ-like, is perhaps an exaggeration. Simon may be pure and innocent, or simply put, true, but to say he is christ-like is simply an oversight on your part.
Also, in what way does the island represent the world? In my point of view, it symbolises isolation from the civilised world, as there are no adults, no "proper" rules, no proper decorum or set of social standards to guide the stranded boys.
Perhaps the island does represent the world, to a certain extent. The love, the hate and the betrayal between the boys, (especially between Jack and Ralph) is similar to international relations and politics of today's society.
thanks,
Tian wen
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 18, 2008 9:59:05 GMT -5
Hi all, I would like to comment on Tian Wen's post. Firstly, i would like to ask Tian Wen to read my post more carefully. I did not say the island represent the world. So, please don't put words that i did not state into my mouth. Just joking. Don't get too uptight. Anyway, i do want to state that i did not say the island represent the world. i stated that the island is an ancient symbol of civilization. The water current around the island seems to be "flowing backwards," giving the impression that civilization may be going backwards for the island or its inhabitants. Hence, Tian Wen, did i say the island represent the world??? Don't get too uptight. The message that i have been trying to convey through my comment above is the same point as yours, Tian Wen, which is isolation from the civilised world. Perhaps, i did not state my main point carefully. I will take note on this. Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2btaytianwen28 on Apr 19, 2008 3:53:31 GMT -5
Hi all,
The Island A representation of the world.
Terre, perhaps you were oblivious to what you posted on this thread. I refer to your first post, above. You clealy stated that the island was in fact a representation of the world. I seek clarification on this.
Thanks,
Tian Wen
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 19, 2008 6:55:46 GMT -5
Hey all,
Firstly, i would like to apologize to Tian Wen regarding my misunderstanding. I had clearly confused myself between the symbolism of the island and the symbolism of the shape of the island.
Sorry about that.
Anyway, i would like to answer Tian Wen's question.
I stated that the island symbolises the world because this microcosmic depiction of our world perfectly captures human brutality on a small scale and the futility of government.
The island is a microcosm for the real world, along with all the problems and realities faced in the world.
Greed, power, domination are all factors of evil in the story line and in today’s society. The first human instinct is survival. The fittest will survive, as in the book, and in today’s world.
Some people cannot fend for themselves as well as fitter people and die off so they may not reproduce. The fittest survive. The role of survival of the fittest was best described on (pg. 8) “I can’t swim on account of my asthma”.
Piggy was already going down in the food chain of the island. Ralph was a tall attractive boy who had very good leadership skills. It is no wonder that he voted in as leader. Piggy can’t defend himself . An example of this is (pg. 17) “Shut up fatty.” Another example is when piggy wants to come with them up the mountain,(pg. 20), “ I’ll come.” “ your no good for a job like this” .
The boys on the island resorted to killing pigs with such savagery when they felt that they were hungry. When there is no order chaos arises. There are many examples of this in our society today. Riots happen when the people think they can get away with it. The number of people outweigh the number of authority figures. People hurt other people and steal. This is not something that would happen in an ordered society.
All these people know what’s right and wrong but their human instinct gets the better of them when they think they can get always with it. The same thing happened on the island. With no authority like the adults or (police) things turned into anarchy or savagery. They were trying to kill each other and run around like savages just because they had no one to tell them they couldn’t do that.
Today’s society is full of bad leaders such as “Sadam Husain” . They lead their people with false ideals and hidden agendas. Their thirst for power killed thousands of people and caused grief and suffering for millions of people.
Sadam Husain tried to take more land for his country and failed and made more people suffer. Jacks hunger for power grew just as these leader’s hunger grew too. (pg. 140) “ I’m not going to be part of Ralph’s lot” , “ I’m going off by myself..... Any one that wants to hunt when I do can come too”.
Also there were many great leaders such as Abraham Lincoln. These Leaders lead their people with great emphasis toward the minority and fought for equal rights. Abraham Lincoln freed the Blacks from oppression. Jack was a great leader that kept the boys in order and kept their one hope of getting of the island alive An example of this is when it was Ralph’s idea to go search the Island (pg. 20) “ .....three of us will go on [an] expedition and find out.... That’s what a good leader does, he makes decisions quickly and makes them good. Ralph was the kind of leader that wasn’t as smart as Piggy but had the leadership skills and personality to become the chief.
Hence, the island is a small representation of the world. Greed, power and domination are all factors today as well as in the story line.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2bwenkang04 on Apr 19, 2008 23:00:22 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I agree to a certain extent that Simon is Christ-like but Simon cannot be compared to Christ. Simon can be said as good and pure, but he is little in comparison with Christ, that is why I think you must have used a wrong word to describe Simon. I agree to a certain extent to Terre's post. Saddam Hussein was spelled wrongly.(However that's not very major point, I'm just pointing it out.) However, I don't think that Jack was a good leader. He was only charismatic at the start. He was dominant. He stood out. That is why everyone listened to him. Jack did not lead everyone to righteousness. Although he seemed to be well-liked person at the start, he was a power-hungry dictator at the end. Furthermore, Jack did not mantain human rights at all. In the last few chapters of the book, he kind of dictated what to do to everyone else. No one had any say. Hence, I think Jack is not a good leader. Thank you Wen Kang
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Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on Apr 20, 2008 3:24:43 GMT -5
Hey all, am here to talk about the comparison between Simon and Jesus Christ.
Simon’s confrontation with the Lord of the Flies—the sow’s head impaled on a stake in the forest glade—is arguably the most important scene in the novel, and one that has attracted the most attention from critics. Some critics have interpreted the scene as a retelling of Jesus’ confrontation with Satan during his forty days in the wilderness, a story originally told in the Gospels of the New Testament. Indeed, many critics have described Simon as a Christ figure, for he has a mystical connection to the environment, possesses a saintly and selfless disposition, and meets a tragic and sacrificial death. He gives up his own life in an attempt to tell the rest of the boys about the beast. Yet when he crawls out of the forest, Jack and his hunters see him as the beast, and murder his body which floats out to sea. Simon helps the littluns gather fruit in the forest, just as Christ cared for the children.
Indeed, many differences between Simon and Jesus complicate the comparison between the two and prevent us from seeing Simon as a straightforward Christ figure. Simon, unlike Jesus, is not a supernatural being, and none of the boys could possibly find salvation from the Lord of the Flies through faith in Simon.
Regards, Marcus Chong 2B03
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