Chapter 7: Shadows and Tall Trees

[S2Lit2008HCI]

1) How is Ralph's reminiscence of his time at home significant? What part does civilisation play at this point in the text?

2) Why is Ralph so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig? How has he changed by this point in the text?

3) List all the factors that led to the boys' decision to go up the mountain in the dark. Discuss what the most important factor was.

For Q3: It may help to think in terms of what could have happened if a different decision had been made at that point in time. For example, "If the boys had waited for daylight...", "If Jack had not taunted Ralph about his 'cowardice'...", "if Simon had gone with the others..."

[2cisaacng23]

Hey all. I'll be attempting Question 1 and 2.

Question 1: How is Ralph's reminiscence of his time at home significant? What part does civilisation play at this point in the text?

In Ralph's reminiscence, he mentions some of the aspects of civlised life he has experienced, both physically and psychologically. Ralph remembers the views of seasons, the simplicity of life and all the comfort that he had. This short reminiscence has a certain sense of melancholy attached to it, one of yearning and longing. All the little things that may not have mattered seems to be so much now, as Ralph describes the books that were not left properly on the shelves and the books that he has not read.

The sentence "Everything was alright; Everything was good humored and friendly" signifies the peace and sense of well-being that Ralph experienced at home. All the little things that Ralph had done and experienced previously symbolises a time where there was no conflict, little unhappiness and full of joy.

At this point in the text, civilisation plays the part of giving Ralph a little glimmer of hope, when everything is going from bad to worse, with the other boys showing more signs of becoming more and more savage. This reminiscence comes at a time when Ralph is losing the will that he has of keeping things organised and civilised on the island. Civilisation becomes the lifeforce of Ralph, driving him with determination and steadfastness in the face of adversaries and difficulties. It also reminds Ralph to be strong in the hope of rescue and not fall into savagery.

Question 2: Why is Ralph so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig? How has he changed by this point in the text?

Ralph is eager to insist his role because he wants to prove himself worthy of respect, not a useless leader and not a coward that gives orders and does nothing. He needs reaffirmation on his authority as leader and needs to know that the boys still respect him as leader. By insisting he part in wounding the pig, he has proven that he has the ability to hunt if he wanted to. Part of the reason for his insistence may also have something to do with Jack, since Jack had been carrying out the bulk of the hunting with Ralph trying to maintain fire, he needs to display his power and authority so that the other boys would still treat him as leader over Jack's leadership role in hunting. It may also be due to ill feelings such as political leadership and quarrels that Ralph wishes to prove himself worthy of leader.

I think that he has changed a little more savage with a hunger for leadership at this point of the story. This is proven by the long insistence by Ralph that he had hit the pig's snout, etc. By proving himself able to hunt, Ralph thinks that the boys will give him more respect over Jack. This kind of shows his hunger for leadership roles. By being a leader, he can ensure some aspects of civilisation on the island, as contrasted to if Jack were leader, most of them would only hunt and not bother about the fire which is their only hope of getting rescued. Ralph has become more desperate to return to civilisation and thus hunts to reaffirm his authority. This is irony, actually, as he acts more savage-like here at almost any other part of the story; The excitement of the hunt and the role he played. By acting more savage-like, he'd hope to retain his leadership which was hanging by a thread due to Jack's hunting ability. So Ralph hunted (Savagery) to affirm his leadership role in hope of being rescued (Civilisation).

Thanks all ^^

[2cgalileoyap07]

1) How is Ralph's reminiscence of his time at home significant? What part does civilisation play at this point in the text?

All through the book, Ralph does not reminiscence his time at home much, except in this chapter, there has to be a special time in this book that allows the author to insert this memory of Ralph's past. Now we have to think about why did WG select this exact time, at this exact scene, that a bit of his "daydreams" were revealed? It may be written at this time for [glow=red,2,300]contrasting[/glow] against the situation in the island at that time. It is at a rather
unexpected time, as Ralph was following Jack up the mountain to hunt for food. Then all of a sudden his home and other details are revealed,
Ralph is a rather normal boy in fact, noticing rather peculiar objects of interests, as most other children his size would. However, out of this dream, he is forced to think more maturely than other children would, making mistakes at times but overall, quite competent. On this island, the conditions are quite the contrary, away from "bowl of cornflakes with sugar and cream" to "bushes crashed ahead of them", highlighting the difference between their past lifestyles and the one on the island.

At this time, civilization on the island had not been totally scrapped yet, it rather illustrates the point that when Ralph and Jack had still been co-leaders, Ralph balances the savagery and the blood lust that Jack’s personality had become. When that balance was broken, all hell broke loose, as illustrated in the following chapters. Thus, I feel that civilization at this point was a thin tread that dangled, if it snapped, it would mean that disastrous things would occur.

[2cpekjiehui27]

Hi everyone

I will be commenting on question 2.

2) Why is Ralph so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig? How has he changed by this point in the text?

When Ralph's spear hit the pig in the snout, Ralph was very proud of himself for doing that and purposefully kept repeating over and over again what he did :"Did you see that?".

This is because firstly, he wanted to show the other boys, especially Jack, that he was not like what Jack said - only knowing how to give orders and being crazy about the fire. Ralph at the start of the story insisted that maintaining the fire was the right thing and should be of more priority than anything else which is evident in "don't you think that you should die... before letting the fire out?". He still ignored Jack's remarks and criticisms at that time. However, this time, when Ralph killed the pig, he wanted to show and tell Jack that he was not just any leader who only gives orders, and is only insane over a fire, and that he was also concerned for having meat. He wanted to show Jack and the other boys that he too could kill a pig, thus, also trying to gain the respect and admiration from the other boys as a leader.

However, there was also a little amount of savagery which had gotten into Ralph at that point of time. He was so obsessed and so proud of himself for wounding the pig that he also jabs his spear at Robert. This shows that savagery had at that time taken over his mind (just like how the other boys later in the chapter gets taken over by savagery and kills Simon). Therefore, Ralph was a little of a savage at that time.

Hence, Ralph changed into being defiant of Jack's criticisms and trying to prove himself, and also a savage to a small extent at that point of time.

Regards,
Jie Hui

[2bmarcel16]

I shall answer question 2.

2)Why is Ralph so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig? How has he changed by this point in the text?

Firstly, let it be said that Ralph,at this point in the story, has probably been influence by the behavior of the other boys and Jack in particular.He probably felt the need for acceptance and to be really admitted into the class of boys whom are hunters.At this point in the story, he had already begun to feel like an outcast and felt the overwhelming hunger to be accepted as he felt lonely with only Simon and Piggy sharing his views on stuff.

His determination not to be consumed by what consumed the other boys caused him to become an outcast later on in the story,hence we can say that his fears that he will be "kicked" out of the group of boys were not unfounded.Ralph is also determined not to be seen by the boys as a coward as Jack described him to be, hence repeatedly emphasized his role in wounding the pig.At this point in the text, he has grown a little like the other boys, a savage, and losing the main focus of getting off the island. However, it must be said that he is not like Jack, who had lost all priorities and is obsessed with hunting and killing the Beast. He still retained some measure of sanity, as can be seen in the final part of the paragraph.

[2chuyongda10]

2) Why is Ralph so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig? How has he changed by this point in the text?

Ralph was excited by the hunting affair. As everyone was enjoying themselves during the hunt and lamenting on how the pig ran away, Ralph joined the discussion by telling everyone about his role in wounding the pig, perhaps in kind of showing-off tone. At this point, Ralph should be desperate to regain his position as the leader of the tribe again and thus making use of this incident to show that he actually has the ability to be the leader of the group. Another factors is that his innate savagery is shown under the context of the hunt. He felt the thrill of killing and the pleasure of being bloodthirsty for the first time and perhaps got carried away. Thus, Ralph became eager to show his part in injuring the pig.

[2amarcusgohsy12]

Hi all,

2) Ralph, as the leader should be leading the group to success (in this case is being rescued). However before this chapter, ralph did not do anything in bringing of food to the people. Instead, Jack was the one. So, to save his face as a leader, he have to do something and most importantly, the members have to know. So he was eager to tell that he played a role in wounding the pig. Ralph had changed alot. At first he do not care how the group views him, be it they see him as respectable or not. Now, at this point, he is eager to let everyone know his contributions.

Marcus Goh

[2bmarcuschong03]

Hey all,

2) I think that it's because Ralph has already reached his limit/ tolerance of his hunger for respect and acceptance of all the other boys. He was also being influenced by Jack, as he noticed how Jack had simply gained respect from the others through violence and savagery instead of his futile efforts on how to be rescued and maintaining law and order. So he got influenced and wanted to grab this golden opportunity to prove himself worthy of being someone to be respected and a leader.

He also didn't want to be ostracize by the others as him, being a child, dreads loneliness like all children do. Besides, he also didn't want others to label him as coward like Jack had said. He had changed from his perspective on how a person gains respect and acceptance and is working forward to his new perspective.

Regards,
Marcus Chong 2B03

[2akennethleong14]

2) Why is Ralph so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig? How has he changed by this point in the text?
Ralph was becoming influenced by Jack's savagery and his losing of support from the boys because he did not like hunting. By insisting his role in wounding the pig, he is showing the others that he can hunt to and wants to gain respect from the others. Also it may be because he had failed in trying to get the boys to keep the fire, work together and to get rescued. By this point of the text, we can see that ralph is slowly losing control of himself and falling prey to the beast inside him, becoming savage like others

[2climshengyang20]

Hi guys,

I am answering question 2 now.
2) Why is Ralph so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig? How has he changed by this point in the text?

In this episode, i felt that Ralph was so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig because he wanted to prove his "work" to the other boys.

It is known that Ralph was always the one doing the talking while Jack was the one doing. Hence, this time when Ralph wounded the pig, he wanted everyone to know that he was capable too and proved that not only Jack could hunt but he himself could also. He wanted everyone to still treat him as a leader and wanted to undermine Jack's authority at the same time.

In this episode, Ralph also proved that he had a tinge of cruelty in him too and he was also becoming savage at the same time.

At first, Ralph and Piggy were the only two trying to maintain law and order and keep everything civilised, but now looked what happened to Ralph. He was excited over wounding a pig. Here, we can see that Ralph was turning savage as well and capable of destruction. In this instance, we will be quite appalled that Ralph would actually be excited over such cruel act.

ShengYang

[2cangenming02]

Hi everyone,

Here is my post on question 2.
2) At the beginning of the chapter, Ralph goes with Jack and his hunters to hunt in the forest. When the wild boar suddenly appears, Ralph uses his spear and stabs it at the boar, though it eventually flees.

I think that Ralph is so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig as he wants to express and showcase his strength and capabilility to the other boys. After wounding te boar, Ralph exclaims, "I hit him" and "I walloped him properly". I feel that Ralph wants to prove to the other boys that he is a capable leader. At this point, he is trying to attract the boys to support and follow him because he is afraid that Jack's rising in popularity can be a threat to his leadership position as chief.

Up to this point, many boys, especially Jack and his hunters, are starting to change in their behaviour to be more wild like savages. I think Ralph is starting to get influenced by his peers and is changing to be more savage-like. This is evident from how he triumphs in the act of injuring the boar, which is typical of a hunter or savage.

Hence, I feel that Ralph is beginning to feel threatened by Jack's rise in power, so Ralph wants to prove to the others that he is a better candidate to be their chief than Jack.

Regards,
Ang En Ming

[2b19qiyun]

(2)
Firstly, Ralph, at this point in the story, has probably been influenced by the other boys' behaviour(Jack in particular). He felt the need for acceptance and to be really admitted into the group of hunters. At this point in the story, he had already begun to feel like an outcast and felt the overwhelming hunger to be accepted as he felt lonely with only Simon and Piggy sharing his views on stuff.

His determination not to be consumed by what consumed the other boys eventually let them to different ways, hence his fears of being cast out of the group of boys were not unfounded. Ralph is also determined not to be seen by the boys as a coward as Jack described him to be, hence repeatedly emphasized his role in wounding the pig.At this point in the text, he has grown a little like the other boys, a savage, and losing the main focus of getting off the island. However, he is not like Jack who is obsessed with killing. He still remains somewhat civilised.

Thx,
RQY

[2b23kevin]

1) How is Ralph's reminiscence of his time at home significant? What part does civilisation play at this point in the text?

Ralph's reminiscence of his time at his home was rather sudden. They were climbing up the moutain when Ralph though about his home. The beginning of the chapter was also talking about Ralph's thoughts, but the thoughts were about the island. The two thoughts are very different from each other, possibly highlighting the difference between his current life and his past life.

The sudden reminiscence could also mean that there was still a trace of civilisation in the boys who seem to be becoming more and more savage, telling us that there is still hope for the boys to return to their "normal" selves.

2) Why is Ralph so eager to insist on his role in wounding the pig? How has he changed by this point in the text?

Ralph knew that Jack was slowly stealing power from him and needed a way to regain that lost power. Ralph wants to show to the other boys that he too could do something that Jack could do (which was hunt), and tell them that Jack was no longer "better" than him and to turn back and support him.

Ralph at this point was turning savage like Jack. This could mean that no one was immune to the savagery in their hearts and it was just a matter of time after the chains of civilisation are lifted for savagery to take over.

Thanks,
Kevin

[2cjiangshen14]

Hi All,

I will be attempting on questions 1 and 2. Feel free to comment.

1) It seems that as Ralph was slowly dragged from civilization to savagery – he is unable to avoid the instinctive excitement of the hunt and gets caught up in the other boys’ bloodlust, however, his sense of civilization suddenly becomes very strong – he kept thinking about home. His instincts are trying to pull away from savagery. There is another reason that has kept him thinking: he had been away from for a long time already, he was home sick. He could do little about relighting and keeping a fire that could bring about rescue. He desperately missed home. So he made peace with his mind by keep losing in thoughts about his home, civilization.

2) He is eager because wants to show Jack that he is not useless, he can hunt very well. It is partly due to his sense of pride and dignity to hunt. And partly due to his curiosity as he had never experienced a real hunting before, he wants to try out to see whether he is good at it. However, as he wounded the pig, his inner sense of savagery started to appear in him. For the first time he realized what savagery is. However, this only stayed in him for a short time. As he was angry that Jack did not care about the fact that he hunted and wounded the pig.

Regards,
Jiang Shen

[2adionloy09]

2) ralph was eager to do so because all the other boys had enjoyed the hunt, and he did not want to be left out. Furthermore, "bragging" about his role might boost his standing among the boys, as at that time, his position as leader was threatened by jack's growing influence over the boys. the thrill of the hunt coupled with the growing desire to hunt again in him made his inner savagery slowly start to take over him. but ralph controls himself and prevents himself from becoming a bloodthirsty savage. his eagerness to "show-off" about his role can also attributed to the fact that it was his first time hunting and hence he felt the thrill for the first time, causing him to be overly excited about it.