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Post by 2bjosephlim10 on May 4, 2008 8:38:45 GMT -5
1) How does Jack use the idea of the Beast to control and direct the boys in his tribe? 2) How does the pig-hunt and subsequent robbing of Ralph's fire in this chapter show the difference between playing and reality for the boys? 3) Why do you think William Golding chose this point in the novel to include the episode of Simon's conversation with the Lord of the Flies? 1) Jack uses the beast as a medium to indirectly control and direct the boys in his tribe. He convinces the boys to believe in the existence of the beast, and tells the rest that he is around to protect them, or to hunt down the beast. The boys, believing in the beast, then follows Jack because he gives them reassurance by hunting down the beast, unlike Ralph, which denies the existence of the beast. Thus, Jack uses the beast to control them. 2) The pig hunt and the robbing of the fire shows savagery, only that the pig hunt still seems to be a bit less savage compared to the robbing of the fire. When they robbed the fire, it was more savage, because they were willing to hurt the other party in order to get the fire. The pig hunt was mainly just to get meat. The raiding of Ralph's camp was more of savagery if you think about it. They "fought" in the dark. They showed more savage behavior than they did when they did the pig hunt. The pig hunt, though the boys showed savagery when they did the pig hunt, they were very very violent, it was not the usual playing a fool kind of thing. The difference between the pig hunt and the robbing of the fire is quite subtle, but the difference is mainly in the intensity of the boys when they comitted these acts. 3) William Golding chose to add in the conversation at this point of the story was to show the intensity of the crisis on the island, where Ralph and Jack split up and have their own tribes. The conversation is somewhat asking Simon to choose a side, or that he should not be bothered with what is going on, and just have fun. This point of the story is reaching the climax, the conversation is to heat things up even further to show the separation of the boys, and the looming crisis ahead. Especially since Simon is talking to the beast, the most feared thing in the island, it shows the intensity of the crisis. Hence, William Golding chose to add the conversation at this point of the story. Regards Joseph
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Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on May 4, 2008 9:19:32 GMT -5
Hey all,
2)How does the pig-hunt and subsequent robbing of Ralph's fire in this chapter show the difference between playing and reality for the boys?
This is a pretty obvious and straight-forward question. Activities which involves violence, murder and stealing, definitely it is not something people play with.
The pig-hunt was clearly a violent thing to do, killing pigs, living-things. No matter it is an animal or a human-being, killing either is unlawful in reality. In the scene, the boys cut their throats, Roger even struck his spear onto the sow's anus, torture it and resort to all other means to break its breath. This shows it is definitely not something the boys did out of curiosity and hunger for fun, playing around but rather out of savagery.
The subsequent robbing of Ralph's fire also showed they were not just simply playing around. They actually planned meticulously for it before descending upon Ralph and his followers to steal burning sticks from the fire. It is very similar to robbers desperate for cash. They plan carefully and steal the things they wanted to use and benefit themselves. Therefore it shows the boys were not just playing around, stealing Ralph's fire just for fun.
So these events showed the difference between playing and reality for the boys.
Regards, Marcus Chong 2B03
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Post by 2bmarcuschong03 on May 4, 2008 9:41:15 GMT -5
Hey all,
3) Why do you think William Golding chose this point in the novel to include the episode of Simon's conversation with the Lord of the Flies?
Firstly, I think it is because Golding wanted to once again show how different Simon is from Jack and Ralph. Where Ralph represents the orderly forces of civilization and Jack the primal, instinctual urges that react against such order, Simon represents a third quality—a kind of goodness that is natural or innate rather than taught by human society. In this way, Simon, who cannot be categorized with the other boys, complicates the symbolic structure of Lord of the Flies. In addition, the conflict between Jack and Ralph had intensified alot and they are dwelling on their own worries--be rescued, but more about the existence/uprising of the Beast. But neither were brave enough to confront the Beast, though both think that it is unlikely to have a beast existing. Their minds were not strong enough, indecisive, hesitant. Simon is different from them, he believes fully that the Beast has never existed on the island and to assure the others, he went to confront and converse with the Beast.
Besides, I also think it is because Golding wanted to foreshadow Simon's mishap later on in the next chapter. During the conversation, the head speaks to Simon in the voice of the “Lord of the Flies,” ominously declaring that Simon will never be able to escape him, for he lies within all human beings. He also promises to have some “fun” with Simon. Terrified and troubled by the apparition, Simon collapses in a faint. The "fun" was an obvious word to show something bad was going to happen to Simon later. And then it indeed happened in chapter 9, where Simon was being mistaken for the Beast and Jack and his followers beat him to death. Being mistaken for the Beast, we can see that actually the Beast is actually involve in this mishap. Keeping his promise to have some "fun" with Simon.
Regards, Marcus Chong 2B03
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Post by 2b19qiyun on May 7, 2008 6:20:23 GMT -5
(1) Jack uses the beast as a medium to assert his control and direct the boys in his tribe. He convinces the boys to believe in the existence of the beast and that the beast cannot be hunted. Then he told the boys to "forget the beast". This made the boys worry for the beast to disappear. The boys seemed to think that Jack solved the problem regarding the beast, and so, they will more willingly follow Jack's lead,
Thx, RQY
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Post by 2cangenming02 on May 19, 2008 2:00:45 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
1) Jack is "brilliantly happy" with his new tribe and declares himself as their "chief". He announces his policies to his group, which is mainly from the choir. He tells them they will forget about the beast, which is a very popular decision. However, he then contradicts himself by saying they will leave an offering of meat for it.
Jack uses the idea of the beast to show how brave and capable he is in order to control and direct the boys in his tribe. In this chapter, it is evident that the boys are still very afraid of the beast. Hence, Jack takes the chance to show his bravery. For example, after killing the pig, Jack 'spoke loudly' that the head of the pig is a gift for the beast. He is trying to convey the idea to the other boys that he is the most suitable chief for them. He wants to show that following him is the right decision, instead of following Ralph and the others as he can provide a sense of protection to protect the boys from the beast. Then the beast "won't bother" them.
Regards, Ang En Ming
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Post by 2cgalileoyap07 on May 19, 2008 4:30:53 GMT -5
1) How does Jack use the idea of the Beast to control and direct the boys in his tribe? There is the rather obvious answer that Jack offers protection from the beast, and to substantiate his point, he give the illusion of invincibility to himself, making himself a demigod, while making Ralph seem like a useless person who can't even defend himself, let alone defend the littluns. However, i would like to state another point. We know that the beast actually originates fro their own ideologies and thinking, which are apparently evil. In my opinion, Jack was possessed by the beast in some way, for example his savagery and blood lust, he is sort of an incarnation of the beast, making the boys powerless towards him. Thus, we can say that actually it is the beast that corners and threatens the boys psychologically, it is also the beast that to the boys, offers comfort to the boys when they are in the hands of the beast itself. Cheerios, Galileo Yap. a.k.a Gerbil.
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Post by 2c30sunyu on Jun 14, 2008 21:02:14 GMT -5
Chapter 8: Gift for the Darkness
1) How does Jack use the idea of the Beast to control and direct the boys in his tribe?
- The boys now believed that the Beast is real.
- Now, the power of civilisation and culture ahd weakened to an extent that Ralph's original democracy changes to a cult'like totalarianism.
- Hence, Jack, representing savagery, uses the boys' fear of the Beast to control them as he knew they were all afraid of the Beast.
- He promised to protect them from the Beast, thus the boys now follows and listen to him for protection.
- The idea of the Beast being real had frightened the boys so much that they stayed close to Jack, allowing Jack to control them and direct them in his bribe easily.
2) How does the pig-hunt and subsequent robbing of Ralph's fire in this chapter show the difference between playing and reality for the boys?
- In the earlier chapters, all the boys on the island were merely playing around and having fun.
- However, as time passes by, Jack and Ralph's relationships were deteoriated to an extent that Jack wanted to kill Ralph and those with him in a way he killed the pig.
- Now, it is not just playing hunting game, but really hunting someone down like a savage hunting animals.
- It reminiscene we humans when we just came into existance. It is a cycle: from savagery to civilisation, then back to savagery again.
3) Why do you think William Golding chose this point in the novel to include the episode of Simon's conversation with the Lord of the Flies?
If anyone who had watched the movie version of Lord of The Flies, one will notice that the part on talking to the Beast was left out. However, in the book, it was emphasized.
I think that Golding may want to set it in the way that Simon is like a Christ-like figure to the readers, which is just like what happens in Bible: Jesus met Satan in his forty days in the desert. It expressed that Simon is neither a total savage (like Jack -- though he was once in Jack's choir group) nor a total civilised person (like Ralph and Piggy). This is evident as Simon did not believed that there is a Beast, which shows that eveil does not exist in his heart. He also fainted when he met the Beast. He is brave in the eyes of the readers.
This conversation with the Beast is vital to judge Simon's character. He is similar to Jesus, who knew the real truth, and wanted to help the others to realise the truth. (However, unlike Jesus, he did nto succeed and was killed before Simon could convey the truth to the other boys that the Beast was not real.)
Cheers, Sun Yu
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Post by 2cjiangshen14 on Jun 19, 2008 9:10:13 GMT -5
Hi All,
I will be answering on Question 1 and 3 for now. Feel free to comment.
1) As we can see, once the boys, having mistaken the dead parachutist for the beast, all the remaining power of civilization diminishes. Everybody now believes that now there is the beast and only Jack can hunt it down. In contrast, Ralph’s leadership declined rapidly as everybody kept finding him saying about the fire and the rescue. However, everyone now is more concerned with the beast than anything as it poses real danger to all of them. Hence, Jack’s power rose as he promised to hunt the best down. Here, Jack actually manipulated the idea of beast to gain more power and direct the boys to his side and be savagery. We can see how the boys’ growing fear of the beast led them to the impalement of the sow’s head on the stake as an offering to the beast.
3) Here in Chapter 8, it is the point where Ralph is losing power and Jack gaining power, both rapidly. Civilization is beginning to fade in the boys’ mind and savagery seems to be going to overturn civilization. Hence, at this point of the novel, we have Simon having a conversation with the Lord of the Flies so as to add the ultimatum to the power of savagery, to let Simon know the end – the beast exists within ourselves. So now while outside Jacking is gaining more power and raiding Ralph’s camp, everything was clear to Simon and the reader now, no point trying in vain to hunt the beast as its existence is deeply rooted within everybody. Feeling extremely troubled and totally lost, Simon faints, with the truth.
Regards, Jiang Shen
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Post by 2cjiangshen14 on Jun 19, 2008 9:25:30 GMT -5
Hi,
I will be attempting on Question 2 for now.
2) The pig hunt shows the boy moving from civilization influence to savagery. Firstly, I would like to state that the essential reason for slaughtering the pig is for meat and survival. Hence, it has nothing to do with playing. Although it seems to them that it is “fun” to do that, they were actually building their so called fun (actually is bloodlust) to the pain of the pig. They actually tortured the pig greatly in the process, due to their savagery minds and bloodlust. In addition, the robbing of Ralph’s fire is not purely for playing. Ralph struggles to keep the fire going to bring about rescue and thus to civilization yet they simply extinguished the fire with violence and took away Piggy’s spectacles which were essential to light a fire on the island. This brings about great lost and depression to Ralph’s side and is certainly not fun!
Regards, Jiang Shen
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Post by 2adionloy09 on Aug 16, 2008 8:15:47 GMT -5
1) jack makes use of the beast to control and direct the chidren on the island by manipulating their fear. This is because the boys see the beast as a "common enemy", and its existence was even "confirmed". jack knew that no such beast existed on the island, but he also knew that it was the common fear of the beast that brought the boys together, and thus he exploited this fear by talking up the beast and in fact giving offerings to the beast, which only enhanced the fear and "respect" for the beast among the boys. This method of control put him at a strong position as the boys now viewed him as superior and the only one who could cope with the beast's threat. jack's confidence in making these claims also made the boys believe that he could give them protection from the beast, thus helping to consolidate his position as leader and giving him control over the other boys.
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Post by 2adionloy09 on Aug 16, 2008 8:22:56 GMT -5
3) golding chose to include that episode in this point of the novel because it was the height of the conflict between jack and ralph, the struggle between civilisation and savagery. again, it highlights how simon is not involved in this conflict, rather, he knows that there is no beast, and he understands that the only beast there ever was is the innner evil within all humans, which only he could understand. at this point in time, savagery is assuming control over the rest of the boys, and simon finally learns the truth, but is it too late? Simon's fainting foreshadows what is going to happen next: the crumbling of civilisation and the boys' turning savage.
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Post by wowposter on Oct 31, 2008 19:54:05 GMT -5
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Post by wowposter on Nov 2, 2008 7:06:01 GMT -5
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Post by wowposter on Nov 5, 2008 15:11:58 GMT -5
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Post by aetehuvaoumu on Jun 8, 2019 6:30:43 GMT -5
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