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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 20, 2008 9:03:26 GMT -5
Hi all,
Tian Wen, you have misunderstood my point. I am trying to put across to you, that YOU are assuming from MY post, and not the other way round.
This could never end...
Why don't we just say both of us have been assuming from each other's post? ok?
In conclusion, I have been trying to say Simon is nice and helpful person who has a good conscience, like what Wen Kang stated.
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2cleeyiren16 on Apr 20, 2008 10:27:47 GMT -5
1) Reread the last eight paragraphs of this chapter. What kinds of imagery does Golding use in this section and what do you think he is trying to convey? Why do you think he chose to include this section at this point in the book?
Golding has conveyed the image of the forest glade as the Garden of Eden in the Bible. The Garden of Eden is the beautiful garden containing the tree of life, where God intended Adam and Eve to live in peaceful and contented innocence, effortlessly reaping the fruits of the Earth. The garden also contained the tree of knowledge of good and evil, from which Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat. When they disobeyed and ate the forbidden fruit, God drove them from the garden. Their sin and consequent loss of God's grace and of their paradise is known as the Fall of Man. This is similar as Simon's glade in the forest. It was described like a paradise where one can tread through the acres of fruit trees and the less energetic could find a easy meal. Flower, fruits, leaves, butterflies and aromatic scent filled the place. Simon likeness for the place show his connectedness to nature. He was the only boy who possessed innocence and goodness throughout. This extract represents the beauty of innocence in the pristine island which was later corrupted by the introduction of evil.
2) Why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book?
While there was a conflict between Jack and Ralph, between civilization and savagery. Simon, meanwhile, seems to exist outside the conflicts. We see Simon¡¯s kind and generous nature through his actions in this chapter. He helps Ralph build the huts when the other boys would rather play, indicating his helpfulness, discipline, and dedication to the common good. Simon helps the littluns reach a high branch of fruit, indicating his kindness and sympathy¡ªa sharp contrast to many of the older boys, who would rather torment the littluns than help them. When Simon sits alone in the jungle glade marveling at the beauty of nature, we see that he feels a basic connection with the natural world. On the whole, Simon seems to have a basic goodness and kindness that comes from within him and is tied to his connection with nature. All the other boys, meanwhile, seem to have inherited their ideas of goodness and morality from the external forces of civilization, so that the longer they are away from human society, the more their moral sense erodes. In this regard, Simon emerges as an important figure to contrast with Ralph and Jack. Where Ralph represents the orderly forces of civilization and Jack the primal, instinctual urges that react against such order, Simon represents a third quality¡ªa kind of goodness that is natural or innate rather than taught by human society. In this way, Simon, who cannot be categorized with the other boys, complicates the symbolic structure of Lord of the Flies.
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Post by 2btaytianwen28 on Apr 21, 2008 5:06:45 GMT -5
Hi all,
Yi ren, I disagree with your post. You stated that Simon had a kind and generous nature, and that the older boys would rather torment the littluns than help them.Are you sure?
Simon does have a kind nature, this being evident from how he helps the littluns pick fruit, but generous? Can you perhaps elaborate on what do you mean by he being generous?
Also, are you sure that ALL the older boys would rather torment than assist or provide help to the littluns? What about Ralph and Piggy? They were sensitive towards the littluns to a certain extent. Piggy was a democrat, one who "feels" for the masses , and needless to say, cares for the overall well-being of the boys. Ralph is also a little less sensitive towards the littluns, don't you agree?
Perhaps you were refering to Jack and the other biguns, other than Ralph and Piggy.
Do post any comments.
Thanks,
Tian Wen
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Post by 2balcanderseah01 on Apr 21, 2008 5:32:43 GMT -5
Hi Tian Wen, I think what Yi ren wants to say about Simon being generous is refering to the selfless concern for the welfare of others, always keen on offering a helping hand to the younger boys on the island and not the way you see as giving other people your possessions freely, if that is how you view it. However I agree with your view that not all of the older boys would rather torment than assist or provide help to the littluns as from the examples you had given, Ralph, Piggy, Sam and eric. However, I agree with Yi ren's view that Simon emerges as an important figure to contrast with Ralph and Jack and this thus complicates the whole structure of the novel. When Simon was killed, his death thus signifies the total loss of innocence as all the other boys, including Ralph and Piggy were a little swayed towards the instinct of savagery. That is all I have to say for now. Thank You
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Post by 2cjiangshen14 on Apr 25, 2008 8:12:08 GMT -5
Hi,
Now, I will answer Question 1.
1) The writer mainly uses personification and imagery to help bring the forest around Simon to life. As can be seen by “all the way up to the dark canopy where life went on clamorously”. The word clamorously here means noisy. Hence, the writer used noisy to portray the trees as humans going on with their life noisily (full of energy). It gave the reader the impression that it was a very interesting place rather than a mystery or scary place. The line “the creepers dropped their ropes like the rigging of foundered ships” helps to bring in fun and enthusiasm. The writer chose to include this section at this point in the book is because here in the section the writer is portraying the beauty of nature. Thinking deeper, this section actually portrays the kind of personality Simon has. This acts as a contrast to Jack whose savage instincts are becoming more and more obvious.
Regards, Jaing Shen
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Post by 2cangenming02 on Apr 27, 2008 8:28:40 GMT -5
Hi all, Here are my posts on the two questions.
1) In the last eight paragraphs of the chapter, Golding's use of imagery gives us a vision of goodness using light and darkness as symbols. Golding is trying to convey the image of Eden, a garden of perfection and plenty, where 'Flower and fruit grew together on the same tree, and everywhere was the scent of ripeness and the booming of a million bees at pasture'. He is also trying to convey that Simon's special place in the vibrant and fruitful jungle is a 'bowl of heat and light'. Though the colours and scents of the flowers are bright and strong, the light starts to fade at the end and 'the riotous colours died and the heat and urgency cooled away', but there is a positive side to it. Simon, instead of looking for 'fun', is enjoying the natural things. I think that Golding chose to include this to express how different and unique Simon is and how he calmly accepts the beauty of the night while others are afraid.
2) There is a focus on Simon here as William Golding is trying to develop his character and show how different he is. The description includes 'his eyes so bright they had deceived Ralph into thinking him delightfully gay and wicked'. However, Simon is actually serious and compassionate. Despite being younger than Ralph and Jack, he is more reflective than the two. Simon is dutiful and kind, as evident from how he was the only one still helping Ralph with the shelters. He is patient with the littluns and careful to check that no one was following. 'For a moment, his movements were almost furtive.' Simon is secure in his own company, to want to be alone to observe nature. Having fulfilled his duties to others, he can observe and know more about the island, more than the rest.
Regards, Ang En Ming
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Post by 2adanieltan08 on Apr 29, 2008 9:25:35 GMT -5
1) Golding is exclusively using a lot of descriptive phrases and also strong , striking words like "gaudy" to describe mainly the environment of the island , and that with this he is trying to convey and create a picture of the island as a very life-like , dangerous and also particulary messy forest with all the tree stumps poking out of the midst. He also adds in a teeny bit of personification and also some sounds, further elaborating on how the forest on the island is like an actual wild , "untamed" forest , letting the reader embrace the dangers and also the certain level of wildness and uncertainty of what might happen while in or living near a forest of this kind, possibly adding suspense and flavour to the novel. I think he chose to add this section to his novel as it will create a theme and overview of the island as wild , unknown and undiscovered , containing many possible dangers and with the "residents" of the forest having the benfit of doubt. This section can also be used to contrast Simon to Jack (the charismatic leader) and Ralph (the righteous leader), showing how calm and composed Simon is , and that he tends to go out of the normal way of things to satisfy his curiosity and also discover things people will not normally notice, thus observant.
2) Simon is a point of focus on ths part of the book as it shows how Simon is the only one that can communicate with the surroundings (the forest , greenery etc), and that he is in fact very observant as he could notice all the surrounding interactions and in a way , represent the boys link to nature as he is the only one that can "communicate" with nature. His mood and atitude is also reflected by his surroundings-calm, composed-and that he strikes a great contrast to Jack and Ralph-portrayed as leading and not taking care of other matters up till this point of the story-, thus being able to bring out Simon's good points and show he is a cameo and sometimes, a major role in the whole novel's theme of savagery , civilisation and laws to restrict mankind.
Don't think I overdid it this time.... (even though quite long....getting restless...)
-)B@CK~ST@B(- f33l th3 p@1n . t@st3 th3 1njust1c3. Wr1th3 1n @g0ny.
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Post by 2bterrechua29 on Apr 30, 2008 2:20:43 GMT -5
Hi all,
I am writing in support of Tian Wen's comments about Yi Ren's post.
I agree with Tian Wen that not all of the older boys would rather torment than assist or provide help to the littluns.
Like what Tian Wen said, the older boys like Ralph and Piggy would not torment the littluns and i agree with him.
Probably, Yi Ren had forgotten about Ralph and Piggy when he was trying to put across his opinion that the older boys would rather torment the littluns than assist them.
Perhaps, Yi Ren, you can modify your post?
Cheers, Terre Chua 2B29
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Post by 2b23kevin on Apr 30, 2008 4:35:25 GMT -5
Hi all, today I'll beposting my comments on Chapter 3.
1) Let us 1st go back to the BEGINNING of the chapter. At the beginning, the focus is on Jack and he was hunting. The words used to describe the forest at that time gives us a bad impression of the forest, how dark, humid and hot it is. That section also focuses on what a character is doing rather than his surroundings. However, we see a direct contrast when we read the last 8 paragraphs. The last few paragraphs' words make the forest seem alive and colourful and overall makes the forest look good. This section also foucses on what the forest does around a character, whom is Simon.
Overall this probably shows how two characters with very different personalities can see the same forest in very different ways. This represents how people with different chracters will almost definitely have different impressions on certain things.
2) Simon was starting to be introduced when Jack and Ralph had made peace after their argument. Golding probably wanted to show more of how Simon was like through the last 8 paragraphs. Simon was going to be treated badly in the following chapters, so these paragraphs were sort of like the peace before the storm and a chance to give Simon a chance to enjoy himself.
The way Simon saw the forest was as if the forest was perfect. This shows the innocence of Simon's heart. He also felt that the forest responded to him, showing his connection to nature.
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Post by 2bongyuhao17 on Apr 30, 2008 7:56:10 GMT -5
2) Why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book?
Simon, meanwhile, seems to exist outside the conflict between Ralph and Jack, between civilization and savagery. We see Simon’s kind and generous nature through his actions in this chapter. He helps Ralph build the huts when the other boys would rather play, indicating his helpfulness, discipline, and dedication to the common good. Simon helps the littluns reach a high branch of fruit, indicating his kindness and sympathy—a sharp contrast to many of the older boys, who would rather torment the littluns than help them. When Simon sits alone in the jungle glade marveling at the beauty of nature, we see that he feels a basic connection with the natural world. On the whole, Simon seems to have a basic goodness and kindness that comes from within him and is tied to his connection with nature. All the other boys, meanwhile, seem to have inherited their ideas of goodness and morality from the external forces of civilization, so that the longer they are away from human society, the more their moral sense erodes. In this regard, Simon emerges as an important figure to contrast with Ralph and Jack. Where Ralph represents the orderly forces of civilization and Jack the primal, instinctual urges that react against such order, Simon represents a third quality—a kind of goodness that is natural or innate rather than taught by human society. In this way, Simon, who cannot be categorized with the other boys, complicates the symbolic structure of Lord of the Flies.
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Post by 2bongyuhao17 on Apr 30, 2008 7:56:58 GMT -5
2) Why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book?
Simon, meanwhile, seems to exist outside the conflict between Ralph and Jack, between civilization and savagery. We see Simon’s kind and generous nature through his actions in this chapter. He helps Ralph build the huts when the other boys would rather play, indicating his helpfulness, discipline, and dedication to the common good. Simon helps the littluns reach a high branch of fruit, indicating his kindness and sympathy—a sharp contrast to many of the older boys, who would rather torment the littluns than help them. When Simon sits alone in the jungle glade marveling at the beauty of nature, we see that he feels a basic connection with the natural world. On the whole, Simon seems to have a basic goodness and kindness that comes from within him and is tied to his connection with nature. All the other boys, meanwhile, seem to have inherited their ideas of goodness and morality from the external forces of civilization, so that the longer they are away from human society, the more their moral sense erodes. In this regard, Simon emerges as an important figure to contrast with Ralph and Jack. Where Ralph represents the orderly forces of civilization and Jack the primal, instinctual urges that react against such order, Simon represents a third quality—a kind of goodness that is natural or innate rather than taught by human society. In this way, Simon, who cannot be categorized with the other boys, complicates the symbolic structure of Lord of the Flies Nice kevin nice.
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Post by 2candrewwong01 on May 1, 2008 1:38:13 GMT -5
Hi, i will be posting on Q.2 first... 2) Why is there a focus on Simon at this point in the book? I believe that at this point of the book, Golding actually uses it to describe more on Simon¡¯s character. The probable significance of the description being right at the end might be because Golding wanted to exclude Simon from all the conflicts and fun portraying him as a solemn and serious character often getting himself in an embrace with nature, choosing to be uninvolved in any of the power struggles. By describing Simon in such a way and in such a situation, the author probably wants to represent Simon as pure goodness, somewhat ¡®Christ-like¡¯ and a very kind person, maybe the only person on the island who possesses any natural, innate goodness; not some one who has a beast within him. Simon is also very much one with nature as even when he parted the clearing of leaves, ¡°Nothing moved but a pair of gaudy butterflies that danced round each other in the hot air.¡± From this, we can see that even as Simon walks through the forest, the beauty still remains rather intact even if there¡¯s disruption. This power of Simon is very significant and Golding describes it in huge detail.
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Post by 2adionloy09 on Aug 16, 2008 4:17:06 GMT -5
2) simon is mentioned only now because he adds another dimension to the story, he is outside the strugge between ralph and jack. ralph is fighting for civilisation- rules and order, and jack represents savagery, however, simon is something different, his morals are not guided by law nor rules, it is a kind of natural goodness and kindness. evidence: while everyone was quarrelling and bickering, simon chooses to admire nature and appreciating the sounds, sight, smell, feel of nature. this shows how he is in a way "related" to nature, suggesting how simon is "pure" and "above" civilisation.
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